I have been in air rifles for a while but have been using break-barrel sporters (mostly a Beeman R8 with a scope). I am not at the level of most of you, but am hoping I can humbly ask for some opinions and perspective.
I would like to get a match rifle. It's unlikely that I will shoot in competitions (but it's possible). But I want the precision and quality and want to challenge myself and know the difference between my own variation and the gun's.
I probably will be mounting a scope. I will be doing silly things like shooting smarties and insects as well as targets. Perhaps some self-resetting silhouettes that I can set up in the backyard and shoot from the window...
I have been looking at some PCP rifles, which seem to be the current state-of-the-art, but there's no way I'll be using SCUBA gear and keeping a tank in the basement. So I'd basically be using a hand pump 100% of the time. At first that seemed silly, but as I thought about it, I'm pumping one way or another, it's just whether it's on the gun, one pump at a time, or off the gun, all at once!
I'd like to keep the rifle lightweight so have looked at Juniors as well. At this point the two I like the best (and I know it's apples and oranges) are a FWB 603 Jr with a scope, or a Walther LG300 Hunter. They are about the same weight (7.5 lb), very accurate, and have the adjustability I'm looking for too. I know the Walther has much higher energy, which might be nice for longer-range plinking, and perhaps I'd even try out a Field Target meet. Quiet is good, and the Walther will be louder, but it seems like it's set up for plastic disks in the muzzle brake which will cut down on the sound.
I can get the Walther with scope, mounts, hand pump and connectors for probably $400 - $500 less than the 603, but that won't be money saved if I don't like and shoot the gun I end up with...
I'm interested in any thoughts folks have, particularly if you use a PCP with a hand pump--is it worth it, or should I just stick with an SSP? I've been looking for a very good used SSP but they're hard to find in really good condition for much less than a new one--I'm kind of fussy and won't be happy with scratches and marks, and probably don't want a club gun.
Your advice is much appreciated. This gun is the next level of commitment for me to the sport...
PCP with hand pump or SSP?
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
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Dan Stillman
If you are starting from scratch buying stuff and assuming you have a scuba shop near there is no real saving in going with a pump. A filled scuba tank will probably last you a year. Additionally SCUBA tank air will generally be much drier than the air from a pump.
In general the FWB's are a pain to put a scope on and once the scope is on it is not as good a setup as say Anschutz. In addition to the loading port, which is easy to fix with a hack saw, the FWB's have grooves only behind the loading port. I know there are mounts that will work but it is still not as good as one that fastens in front and back. I shoot only 10m but still it is fun to install a scope on occasion and fool with it.
In general the FWB's are a pain to put a scope on and once the scope is on it is not as good a setup as say Anschutz. In addition to the loading port, which is easy to fix with a hack saw, the FWB's have grooves only behind the loading port. I know there are mounts that will work but it is still not as good as one that fastens in front and back. I shoot only 10m but still it is fun to install a scope on occasion and fool with it.
I currently shoot sporting and match springers as well as single stroke match guns. A few of my favorites are the 300S Jr, 601, and Anschutz SuperAir 2002.I don't shoot competitively, only as a hobby for fun. If I were to become serious, I would definitely consider pre-charged using a tank. The main reason is for ease of use during a match and less physical stress on my part, anything to gain an advantage. As already stated, tank air already comes dry versus using a pump. I haven't heard of any problems using a pump, but it is usually dry here in Colorado.
It sounds like weight is very important to you. If so, you might want to confirm your figures. The 603 Jr is listed at 4.1 kg, about 9 lbs, according to the FWB web site. You can probably make it a little lighter by removing the barrel weight. Maybe you have the specs for the 700 Jr, which is listed at 3.4-3.55 kg, about 7.5-7.8 lbs. Either way, you might also consider that neither comes with an absorber. This is probably not important if you are not competing. I don't think you should go too light on a target rifle since the extra weight helps dampen your movements. I like 9.5 to 10.5 pounds with peep sights.
Concerning the scope mounts, I saw some many years ago so my memory is a bit fuzzy. Those in the picture appear to be similar to the factory FWB mounts. The rear clamps to the sight dovetail. The front clamps to the rear barrel mount. In your picture, it looks like the rear clamps to the rear of the barrel.
Hope this helps.
Jim Y.
It sounds like weight is very important to you. If so, you might want to confirm your figures. The 603 Jr is listed at 4.1 kg, about 9 lbs, according to the FWB web site. You can probably make it a little lighter by removing the barrel weight. Maybe you have the specs for the 700 Jr, which is listed at 3.4-3.55 kg, about 7.5-7.8 lbs. Either way, you might also consider that neither comes with an absorber. This is probably not important if you are not competing. I don't think you should go too light on a target rifle since the extra weight helps dampen your movements. I like 9.5 to 10.5 pounds with peep sights.
Concerning the scope mounts, I saw some many years ago so my memory is a bit fuzzy. Those in the picture appear to be similar to the factory FWB mounts. The rear clamps to the sight dovetail. The front clamps to the rear barrel mount. In your picture, it looks like the rear clamps to the rear of the barrel.
Hope this helps.
Jim Y.
Can I suggest something a little different?
Consider getting an older recoiless springer. A FWB300 or Diana 60/65/66 would do very well for your intended purposes. There is absolutely no problem mounting a scope on these rifles. The 300 can be found in a lighter jr version and the barrel weight of the Dianas is simply removed by unscrewing a nut, getting the rifle down to a more managable weight. They are both as accurate as anyone doing casual shooting needs. There are no external support gadgets required. There are plenty of people who can repair these if neeed be, and finally they are way cheaper than any pre-compressed ariguns available.
If you find you don't care for one for some reason you can get easily get back almost 100% of your purchase cost. To me they have a bit more charm being made of blued steel abd walnut, but that is a highly personal thing.
Also the 300 can be upped a bit in power which is nice if you want to shoot at longer ranges. I have a Diana 66 that I have removed the barrel weight from and use a BKL cantilever mount with an inexpensive 6x scope and it is a great medium range plinker. Pull off the scope, put the barrel weight and diopter sight back on and I am ready to shoot 10M. Pretty versatile and inexpensive.
Consider getting an older recoiless springer. A FWB300 or Diana 60/65/66 would do very well for your intended purposes. There is absolutely no problem mounting a scope on these rifles. The 300 can be found in a lighter jr version and the barrel weight of the Dianas is simply removed by unscrewing a nut, getting the rifle down to a more managable weight. They are both as accurate as anyone doing casual shooting needs. There are no external support gadgets required. There are plenty of people who can repair these if neeed be, and finally they are way cheaper than any pre-compressed ariguns available.
If you find you don't care for one for some reason you can get easily get back almost 100% of your purchase cost. To me they have a bit more charm being made of blued steel abd walnut, but that is a highly personal thing.
Also the 300 can be upped a bit in power which is nice if you want to shoot at longer ranges. I have a Diana 66 that I have removed the barrel weight from and use a BKL cantilever mount with an inexpensive 6x scope and it is a great medium range plinker. Pull off the scope, put the barrel weight and diopter sight back on and I am ready to shoot 10M. Pretty versatile and inexpensive.
The Walther LGR, an SSP, is a good candidate for scoping.
Regarding hand pumps..
I use a pump to fill the cylinder of my S200. This only has a 122cc reservoir which is filled to about ~2750psi. If the Hunter's cylinder capacity is in this range, and the pressure isn't much greater, then a pump might be appropriate. But it would be a real chore to fill a larger cylinder.
There's a scoped 300S towards the bottom of Pilkington's used page - http://www.pilkguns.com/usedguns.shtml
Regarding hand pumps..
I use a pump to fill the cylinder of my S200. This only has a 122cc reservoir which is filled to about ~2750psi. If the Hunter's cylinder capacity is in this range, and the pressure isn't much greater, then a pump might be appropriate. But it would be a real chore to fill a larger cylinder.
There's a scoped 300S towards the bottom of Pilkington's used page - http://www.pilkguns.com/usedguns.shtml
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Joe66
Get a used FWB 600 or 601
My recommedation would be to buy a FWB 600 or 601. They are easy to cock, very accurate, last longer than the other air rifles, and there are scope mounts for them. You just need to cut the loading port.
Also if you want want to have easier cocking, on the FWB 600 you can cut the cocking arm, weild an extension bar between the two half and it will be very easy to cock. almost as easy as the PCP to cock.
Also if you want want to have easier cocking, on the FWB 600 you can cut the cocking arm, weild an extension bar between the two half and it will be very easy to cock. almost as easy as the PCP to cock.