I forgot about another point I'd like to make regarding this topic. Several of you have mentioned that other sports are taking the place of the shooting sports - have any of you considered that your daughters would be just as interested in shooting as your sons?
I know that girls are now given more opportunities to play sports and many of the more talented do - but talent has less to do with success in shooting then training, being given an opportunity to practice, and learning how to focus.
I started shooting when my father felt like I could responsibly handle a gun, which in my family was about 12 years old. I joined the Junior rifle club and went several weekends a month to practice and participate in some competition. I wasn't gifted with great athleticism, but I eventually got very good at target shooting. There weren't too many girls in shooting then, but there are now, and they are great competitors.
I have talked to many women who told me that they wished that they had learned to shoot when they were younger, so I believe the interest is there. I think it's our duty as shooters to be ambassadors for our sport and promote it not only to our sons, but also our daughters.
Where have all the shooters gone?
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
I can envision a women being more interested in taking up pistol shooting rather than rifle shooting. That being said, I do know some women who excel shooting rifle. I did try to interest my wife in shooting about 15 years ago. Took a .22 pistol out to the local range. She was very capable, but the bug didn't bite her. She has no interest in even trying the rifle with me.
I might have to differ with you on that point, corning. I've found lots of women interested in rifle shooting who weren't interested in pistol.
The only question that comes up pretty frequently concerns the amount of recoil that these women are expecting. A .22 rifle is pretty much unnoticeable in terms of recoil, but if you've never had exposure to the shooting sports, the recoil on a .45 pistol can be a surprise. I think women are a little intimidated by that, but after the first few shots, the apprehension tends to disappear.
The only question that comes up pretty frequently concerns the amount of recoil that these women are expecting. A .22 rifle is pretty much unnoticeable in terms of recoil, but if you've never had exposure to the shooting sports, the recoil on a .45 pistol can be a surprise. I think women are a little intimidated by that, but after the first few shots, the apprehension tends to disappear.
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guester
Re: translation
Thanks for the clarification, Mike.Mike Taylor wrote: ...The latter phrase being a disparaging term for old men of grumpy disposition and unfriendly demeanor - at least as seen by the younger generation.
Mike T.
"Grumpy disposition and unfriendly demeanor".
Presicely. I have experienced this attitude in clubs myself.
Young newbees outshooting the older (not nocessary very old, but say more experienced) shooters.
That may cause envy and non-including behavior towards the new clubmembers. Sadly, that is not uncommon.
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Citori Girl
where are all the shooters? waiting for your help!!!!!!
I've enjoyed reading this post and am frankly very surprised that (at least from the United States) there isn't more talk/response about the 4H shooting sports program.
I would encourage all of you to PLEASE look into the 4H shooting sports program in your area. It really doesn't take much to get a group started. All you need is a couple of adults to put in their time to be certified and teach the kids about archery, shotgun, muzzleloading, wildlife, rifle, pistol, etc. We have kids that have never shot ANYTHING before and are having a blast learning about the various disciplines. Most of our members are in 5th and 6th grade and are either wanting to improve their skills or are curious about how the various shooting sports.
We cover all kinds of ideas related to just simple shooting, caring for the desired firearm and SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY! (You wouldn't believe how many kids didn't know that a barrel is rifled for a reason!)
The more people (young and old) we tell about the shooting sports and the SAFETY involved, the more excited everyone becomes. Our group has even had parents buying equipment for themselves so they can shoot with the kids at home! (Not to mention that we've had a resurgence of NRA memberships in our area, but that's another story.)
Like Joel Martin stated in an earlier post, I could ramble on about this topic, too. PLEASE check out "4H shooting sports" the next time you are online and looking for something to read about.
I would encourage all of you to PLEASE look into the 4H shooting sports program in your area. It really doesn't take much to get a group started. All you need is a couple of adults to put in their time to be certified and teach the kids about archery, shotgun, muzzleloading, wildlife, rifle, pistol, etc. We have kids that have never shot ANYTHING before and are having a blast learning about the various disciplines. Most of our members are in 5th and 6th grade and are either wanting to improve their skills or are curious about how the various shooting sports.
We cover all kinds of ideas related to just simple shooting, caring for the desired firearm and SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY! (You wouldn't believe how many kids didn't know that a barrel is rifled for a reason!)
The more people (young and old) we tell about the shooting sports and the SAFETY involved, the more excited everyone becomes. Our group has even had parents buying equipment for themselves so they can shoot with the kids at home! (Not to mention that we've had a resurgence of NRA memberships in our area, but that's another story.)
Like Joel Martin stated in an earlier post, I could ramble on about this topic, too. PLEASE check out "4H shooting sports" the next time you are online and looking for something to read about.
The youth
[quote="pdeal"]The young ones are playing soccer, baseball, basketball, and football. Older ones are sitting on the couch watching these same sports on TV.[/quote]
I am 16 and I tried to get High School shooting teams started at my school, and the ruddy morons who run the place said "we all like guns and hunt ourselves, but we dont think the high school should be affiliated with a gun team". Now, if our "role models" in schools are going to take the mentality that guns are bad and try to get kids to avoid them, how are we going to keep the shooting sports alive? I think that the NSSF, NRA, USOC, ISSF, and any other large firearm associations should "deputize" people in ALL communities and put immense pressure on schools because one lone Junior speaking to the whole board staff kindof feels like a fool who cant do anything no matter how hard he tries. Cant wait till I'm 35, I want to be president.
I am 16 and I tried to get High School shooting teams started at my school, and the ruddy morons who run the place said "we all like guns and hunt ourselves, but we dont think the high school should be affiliated with a gun team". Now, if our "role models" in schools are going to take the mentality that guns are bad and try to get kids to avoid them, how are we going to keep the shooting sports alive? I think that the NSSF, NRA, USOC, ISSF, and any other large firearm associations should "deputize" people in ALL communities and put immense pressure on schools because one lone Junior speaking to the whole board staff kindof feels like a fool who cant do anything no matter how hard he tries. Cant wait till I'm 35, I want to be president.
Probably out doing a sport where you can actually earn some money instead of just pouring it down that empty hole that is shooting. Just kidding.cdf wrote:All we can do is encourage anyone who takes an intelligent intrest . This can be time consuming , and sometimes expensive , but can also bring big dividends .
Chris
PS , where would all of us be if someone hadnt taken under their wing
I'm not trying to irritate anyone, but in my neck of the woods, I don't know of a single coach (excepting the NCAA coaches I've met) that are doing this for a paycheck of any sort.
In fact, most of us sink quite a bit of our personal funds into the programs we are promoting. Again, I'm coming from a 4-H background .... BUT, I also deal with many JROTC programs in the area. From Archery to Muzzleloading, Air Rifle to Shotgun ..... I see not one successful program that the coach/instructor/volunteer that does not have that personal investment, both in time and $$. This includes the many successful JROTC programs ... one coach instructor last year paid the majority of the expenses for his kids to go to Benning last year... when I say majority think over 80% .... Flights and motels from ABQ the Benning are not cheap.
In my case, I have no qualms about it, as I can refer to this as donations to a 501(c)(3) organization (4-H) on my taxes .... I'd much rather give it to the kids than to the congressional pensions.
I have no idea what an NCAA Rifle coach would make, but I have a pretty good feeling they do it mostly for the love of the sport, not the amount of money they earn.
It's not what most of us consider a career path .... if that's what folks are looking for, then better bone up on your football. I'm going out on a limb here, but I'll guess that most of us do it as an investment in our own futures.
In fact, most of us sink quite a bit of our personal funds into the programs we are promoting. Again, I'm coming from a 4-H background .... BUT, I also deal with many JROTC programs in the area. From Archery to Muzzleloading, Air Rifle to Shotgun ..... I see not one successful program that the coach/instructor/volunteer that does not have that personal investment, both in time and $$. This includes the many successful JROTC programs ... one coach instructor last year paid the majority of the expenses for his kids to go to Benning last year... when I say majority think over 80% .... Flights and motels from ABQ the Benning are not cheap.
In my case, I have no qualms about it, as I can refer to this as donations to a 501(c)(3) organization (4-H) on my taxes .... I'd much rather give it to the kids than to the congressional pensions.
I have no idea what an NCAA Rifle coach would make, but I have a pretty good feeling they do it mostly for the love of the sport, not the amount of money they earn.
It's not what most of us consider a career path .... if that's what folks are looking for, then better bone up on your football. I'm going out on a limb here, but I'll guess that most of us do it as an investment in our own futures.
I agree.
Its the only sport I know where everyone expects to be coached for free, scratch that coached at someone elses expense (because they don't even cover your expenses).
There was a debate on here before about paying for coaching. People took offence that one of the members here was charging for coaching services.
Also not to ruffle feathers but because no one gets paid that is probably why there are very few world class coaches on this side of the pond.
The top European coaches do get paid. Unfortunately to get them here you'd have to pay their fee and their expenses (which is out of the question for most shooters).
Figure skating coaches get paid
Tennis coaches get paid
Golf instructors get paid
Gymnastic coaches get paid
Shooting coaches are like the monks of the sporting world with a vow of poverty.
Its the only sport I know where everyone expects to be coached for free, scratch that coached at someone elses expense (because they don't even cover your expenses).
There was a debate on here before about paying for coaching. People took offence that one of the members here was charging for coaching services.
Also not to ruffle feathers but because no one gets paid that is probably why there are very few world class coaches on this side of the pond.
The top European coaches do get paid. Unfortunately to get them here you'd have to pay their fee and their expenses (which is out of the question for most shooters).
Figure skating coaches get paid
Tennis coaches get paid
Golf instructors get paid
Gymnastic coaches get paid
Shooting coaches are like the monks of the sporting world with a vow of poverty.
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TomN
In as much as this thread started with a review of participation in the NRA Sectional matches, it is worth noting that the Sectional season is here again. You can find a match location on the NRA website:
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/calendar.a ... Sectionals
or printed in Shooting Sports USA magazine.
I hope the numbers for 2008 reverse the trend of declining participation.
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/calendar.a ... Sectionals
or printed in Shooting Sports USA magazine.
I hope the numbers for 2008 reverse the trend of declining participation.
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Tom Amlie
I'll do my part - planning on shooting the smallbore rifle events as well as all 3 pistol events. It'll be a 4-5 hour drive for the FP, but if people don't attend these matches they'll dry up. If anyone from MD/VA/PA wants to share the driving to Binghamton, NY for FP let me know. (or maybe we could go south to SC - nice place to be in February)TomN wrote: I hope the numbers for 2008 reverse the trend of declining participation.
tta2@psu.edu
Team vs. Individual sports
Reading this thread, a few points come to mind.
Team sports are highly publicized in the past 10 or 20 years in the US. Less attention is given to individual sports. As a parent with kids, I see a lot of activity in team sports for children. My kids don't seem so enamored with team sports, so that leaves an opportunity for shooting as an interest.
Mako -- I raced Solo II and Pro Solo for a number of years starting in the late '80s, when the Nationals were at the air base in Salina. There are many parallels to shooting as Solo II is also a mental sport, as I'm sure you've discovered. In Solo II, your butt follows your eyes. You must be looking two or three turns ahead. Visualization is key, when the course is different every day and you only get three shots for a best time with no pre-running, only walk throughs. And you are really competing against yourself. I do think racing Solo II is one reason I've made Distinguished in 2 1/2 years shooting, and Master in Bullseye in just over three years shooting.
Yes, Solo II / Pro Solo can be expensive if you race a bunch or go with custom gear. But just like shooting, Solo II can be done on a budget.
Jon
Team sports are highly publicized in the past 10 or 20 years in the US. Less attention is given to individual sports. As a parent with kids, I see a lot of activity in team sports for children. My kids don't seem so enamored with team sports, so that leaves an opportunity for shooting as an interest.
Mako -- I raced Solo II and Pro Solo for a number of years starting in the late '80s, when the Nationals were at the air base in Salina. There are many parallels to shooting as Solo II is also a mental sport, as I'm sure you've discovered. In Solo II, your butt follows your eyes. You must be looking two or three turns ahead. Visualization is key, when the course is different every day and you only get three shots for a best time with no pre-running, only walk throughs. And you are really competing against yourself. I do think racing Solo II is one reason I've made Distinguished in 2 1/2 years shooting, and Master in Bullseye in just over three years shooting.
Yes, Solo II / Pro Solo can be expensive if you race a bunch or go with custom gear. But just like shooting, Solo II can be done on a budget.
Jon
Shooting is not popular for the simple fact that its shooting and its not now nor will it be in any forseeable future a politically correct activity to involve your child in. That is the plain and simple fact. I know we all know different but the great unwashed millions don't so shooting will always be a fringe sport at best.
Do I Know him?
Do I know this guy? :)))Richard H wrote:I agree.
Its the only sport I know where everyone expects to be coached for free, scratch that coached at someone elses expense (because they don't even cover your expenses).
There was a debate on here before about paying for coaching. People took offence that one of the members here was charging for coaching services.
Also not to ruffle feathers but because no one gets paid that is probably why there are very few world class coaches on this side of the pond.
The top European coaches do get paid. Unfortunately to get them here you'd have to pay their fee and their expenses (which is out of the question for most shooters).
Figure skating coaches get paid
Tennis coaches get paid
Golf instructors get paid
Gymnastic coaches get paid
Shooting coaches are like the monks of the sporting world with a vow of poverty.
It is obvious...
Yes it is. I'm around. I hope at this time you are guys can get close to right solution for our situation in Olympic Target Shooting. It is obvious; we must do some changes in this case….Richard H wrote:I think you probably met him a couple times Russ ;) To to see you're still around. You always had interesting inputs in many of the hottly debated issues.
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
I'm not sure of that's totally correct Richard.Richard H wrote:There was a debate on here before about paying for coaching. People took offence that one of the members here was charging for coaching services.
My memory is that people complained about what they considered to be blatant advertising of those services on TT.
IMHO charging for coaching services is completely acceptable. If those charges can be paid by a central organisation then that is great. If not then someone has to pay.
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Steve Swartz
Of course, the following is just my opinion; OBVIOUSLY not shared by EVERYONE on the forum:
Advertising-free Content Good.
Content-free Advertising Bad.*
Clarification by example:
Content: "The pros and cons of technique X are . . . "
Advertising: "[Insert product/service here] works great according to 4 out of 5 users . . . "
Yep, I've lost "friends" over this stance- and prevented making new "friends" over this stance. Oh well. Same thing happened when some members were giving advice on how to cehat the airlines for excess baggage weight . . .
Steve Swartz
*Obvious exception, of course, is Pilkguns- who *owns* the forum. I am of course delighted that he doesn't advertise here; but he has every right to do so.
Advertising-free Content Good.
Content-free Advertising Bad.*
Clarification by example:
Content: "The pros and cons of technique X are . . . "
Advertising: "[Insert product/service here] works great according to 4 out of 5 users . . . "
Yep, I've lost "friends" over this stance- and prevented making new "friends" over this stance. Oh well. Same thing happened when some members were giving advice on how to cehat the airlines for excess baggage weight . . .
Steve Swartz
*Obvious exception, of course, is Pilkguns- who *owns* the forum. I am of course delighted that he doesn't advertise here; but he has every right to do so.