Should USAS offer a Distinguished badge?

[Mike M.]

A post on another thread sparked an idea....

Should USA Shooting offer a Distinguished Shooter badge?

The NRA does, and it seems to be a fairly big draw. I'll add that the North-South Skirmish Association has a similar program for individual competition with Civil War arms. It's the sort of thing that recognizes the shooters who may not be THE best on a given day, but who are consistently good...and persistent. Persistence is a virtue.

[Guest]

The already do 30 points won in International competition are required.

[Steve Swartz]

CMP, not NRA or USAS program.

You earn points by placing at a very narrowly and specifically defined list of international competitions.

Most (all?) of those competitions require that you be a team member/approved by USAS to even attend.

It's a *very* elite badge . . . much more difficult to get than the CMP Pistol, Rifle, or Shotgun badges.

http://www.odcmp.com/ then link to http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions.htm

and scroll down to the "Distinguished Shooter Program" for details.

Steve Swartz

[2650 Plus]

This badge has been awarded for almost 50 years. I am not certain of the criteria but It has something to do with success in international competition. IMHO it is the most prestigious badge awarded for excellence in the shooting sports. I am holder of distinguished badges in both pistol and rifle competition. I hold the NRA decision to designate the youth achievement award as a distinguished medal to be the most inaproprate decision they could have possibly made. Good Shooting Bill Horton

[Steve Swartz]

Oh Well mis-spoke about the "shotgun" thing.

Anyhow, you must earn 30 points according to the matrix in the link (sorry can't figure out how to paste in here). Basically you must place in at least the top 8 (or can earn points as a medalling team member) in:

Olympic Games, World Championship, World Clay Target Champ, World Cup Final, World Cups, Pan American Games, Championship of Americas, World Junior Championship, and Americas Jr. Championship.

These are all "Selected" matches AFAIK ie you must be USAS rostered to go. Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun badges combined under one badge.

If you check the lists, "Triple Distinguished" is indeed a small club . . .

Steve

[Mike M.]

My idea would be to have something much closer to the regular CMP program...something that ANY competitor could hope to earn, not just the Olympic team.

Probably set up a point system similar to the CMP setup.

Might rename it, too.

[Mike M.]

My idea would be to have something much closer to the regular CMP program...something that ANY competitor could hope to earn, not just the Olympic team.

Probably set up a point system similar to the CMP setup.

Might rename it, too.

[Marcus]

I hold the NRA decision to designate the youth achievement award as a distinguished medal to be the most inaproprate decision they could have possibly made.

Bill,

Exactly what "youth achievement award" are you refering to?

The "Distinguished Expert" level in the Marksmanship qualification program? This award is not a "competitive shooting" award, and has nothing to do with classification except that the skill level needed to achieve it is somewhere around the Sharpshooter level. It is a skill training program.

Are you referring to the Youth Programs Award for highly involved young people who apply for the award and can win a scholarship? They may get a distinctive medal but it is not a "Distinguished" medal.

If you are referring to the Air rifle Distinguished program, that is a CMP, not NRA program.

Or what exactly are you referring to?

As an NRA staff person and a Distinguished Rifleman (with a great wife who has one of those too AND and an International Distinguished Badge) I am confused. Please clarify.

Marcus

[Alex_c]

Yeah it's a CMP program, you have to earn 30 points in World Cups, Olympics Pan American Games etc to get it.

I'd have 'em if I hadn't kinda screwed up in Munich - I have 20 points.

the rifle and pistol parts are easier, you just have to like going around places and shooting a military type rifle and pistol.

Only about 25 (or so) people have all 3. A mentor of mine had his International and rifle, so he just had to go around and do the pistol part, so now he's "triple distinguished". He has quite a sense of humor and once told me about how a loose bushing on his .45 "enabled" him to string shots all up and down the target lol.

[2650 Plus]

Marcus, I mentioned exactly what you described. The competitive excelence required to earn any one of the three distinguished badges is not required to earn the so called distinguished expert badge and my only issue with this award is calling it 'distinguished ' anything. Good Shooting Bill Horton

[Guest]

I think that the CMP distinguished service pistol and rifle programs are valuable and worthwhile for competitors. Their biggest shortcoming IMO is the often dramatic variation in scores, among regions and sometimes venues, necessary to earn leg points. This seems to engender very different perceptions of the significance of these awards.

For instance in my area of the country a distinguished rifle badge is like earning an enhanced master classification - the scores needed are about the same (e.g. a recent EIC rifle match I'd attended cut-off at 487). Shooters often achieve master or even high master before earning their DR badge. But in other less competitive regions it seems that expert range scores can earn you a badge. So some people hold the DR in very high esteem while others perceive it as an award that

you just have to like going around places and shooting a military type rifle and pistol.

Perhaps by accumulating competition scores on a national level and then assigning points using the current proportional scheme, you could avoid this problem.

[Asa Yam]

Their biggest shortcoming IMO is the often dramatic variation in scores, among regions and sometimes venues, necessary to earn leg points. This seems to engender very different perceptions of the significance of these awards.

Try EARNING a badge sometime. I've attended matches where the "cut" was in the 420s, because the wind was gusting to over 30 MPH. This wasn't a small match either - 2 legs were awarded. The winner (not me - I was down around 400) was the only shooter that didn't crossfire or shoot a miss offhand.

When you can shoot every 300+ yard centerfire rifle match indoors, then you can talk about standardizing the scores for such events. Until then, leave well enough alone.

Asa Yam
Distinguished Rifleman #1602

[mikeschroeder]

Marcus, I mentioned exactly what you described. The competitive excelence required to earn any one of the three distinguished badges is not required to earn the so called distinguished expert badge and my only issue with this award is calling it 'distinguished ' anything. Good Shooting Bill Horton

HI

I DEFINITELY agree. Earning NRA Marksmanship Qualification Expert makes you ready to attend competitons without being embarassed. Earning NRA Distinguished Expert makes you a good enough shooter to actually be competitive. For Bullseye Pistol the classification of Marksman is 85% or below and Sharphooter is 85-90%. Earning Distinguished Expert in Bullseye Pistol is around 85% IN COMPETITION.

Mike
Wichita KS

[jackh]

[quote="Mike M."]A post on another thread sparked an idea....

Should USA Shooting offer a Distinguished Shooter badge?.............[/quote]


1. If they do, I hope it is based on performance without a factor of luck on who is-is not there. That CMP's current 10% thing seems to me only appropriate for a Military setting with a large number of participants, or at least a large number. I really wonder if a shooter who earns her/his Distinguished Pistol Badge with a series of 260 EIC scores is as "distinguished" as the 280+ shooter. Note that there are very few 290+ scores each year. (I scored 291 once in a practice match :)

2. If I had my way, the 10% shooters in EICs would have to beat the gold-silver-bronze cut-offs of the most recent NTI (or an average of say 3 highest of most recent 5 NTIs. That way extraordinary circumstances at the NTI would filter out). And the EIC shooter would get the points corresponding to the gold-silver-bronze NTI schedule. Also there should be an absolute threshold score to get any points at all. (But that would be mostly solved by the NTI list.) Also I dislike the all 10 point awards at Nationals. Getting 10 points for a 6 point score....sheesh! But them's the rules.

[2650 Plus]

Many of you know of or have met Colonel Pullem, arthor of the book "precision rifle shooting" While shooting a rifle "leg" match he fired a respectible 95 in standing. Before he left the standing line he cranked his sitting zero on his rear sight then moved his gear off the line. When he was called back to the line for sitting rapid fire he again cranked the sitting setting on his sight and fired a three inch group at twelve o'clock in the five ring. Its little things that make getting distinguished so dam hard. Good Shooting Bill Horton

[VAshooter]

When I was shooting leg matches for the Distinguished Pistol Badge I accumulated 30 points shooting in military matches since I was retired Navy. This was back when DCM was folding and CMP was taking over. I got a letter from CMP stating that DCM had not collected registration fees from the military matches so my points didn't count. I started over shooting civilian matches and Distinguished in one year.

I got my rifle badge while I was still in the Navy back when they were still 24 carat gold.

I'm getting old now so my chances would be better finding one on the street than earning an International badge.

Shoot well, Doug