Pellet weight for AP

jipe · Post by **jipe** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:18 am

I wonder what pellet weigtht most of you are using.

Basically, I see three common values:
- lightweigtht AP pellets like RWS R10: 0.45g
- AP pellets like H&N final match: 0.49 (some brand have 0.50g)
- AR pellets like Vogel match green: 0.53g

I have been using H&N for a long time.

What are you using and why ?

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:01 am

I use H&N AP pellets with my LP10 (and LP5). Reason is because I always have and they group well. In theory one should test different pellet brands, sizes and weights when you first get the gun to see which is the best performer, but I've never done that.

Rob.

Mellberg · Post by **Mellberg** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:58 am

In my Hammerli AP40 I use HN Finale Match. The 4,50mm 0,49g pellet grouped slightly better than 4,50mm 0,53g.
I found a batch that grouped extremely well (a 15 shot grouping was just about 6mm wide end to end) so I bought all the bullets (7500pcs) available.

On a side note. RWS R10 0,45g and 0,53g group very well too and considering the difference in weight I think that bullet diameter is more important. At least in my pistol.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:29 am

H&N Finale Match, 049g, 4.49mm in both a Steyr LP5 and a Morini 162EI.

When I first started to use the LP5 10 years ago I found that I preferred the recoil characterisics of this ppellet for what were then known as the ISSF "Provisional" 5-shot matches. When I purchased the Morini the same pellets seemed to work fine, with no shots being away from where they were called.

I purchased several sleeves of them a few years ago which, at about 2 tins per year, will keep me going for a while.

jipe · Post by **jipe** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:56 am

Thanks for the fast feedback.

The influence of the weight is on the pellet speed, lightweight pellets should be faster => need less time to travel through the barrel => less sensitive to small barrel movements. This is at least what RWS claims to justify the 0.45g pistol pellets compared to the 0.53g rifle pellets.

Vogel is supposed to also have a pistol version the yellow match, but I never saw it, I only saw the green match pellets and orange sport pellets.

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:06 am

jipe wrote:The influence of the weight is on the pellet speed, lightweight pellets should be faster => need less time to travel through the barrel => less sensitive to small barrel movements. This is at least what RWS claims to justify the 0.45g pistol pellets compared to the 0.53g rifle pellets.

Personally, I think that RWS is just trying to reduce their cost of manufacture as the price of lead keeps going up :-)

Mellberg · Post by **Mellberg** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:24 am

jipe wrote: The influence of the weight is on the pellet speed, lightweight pellets should be faster => need less time to travel through the barrel => less sensitive to small barrel movements. This is at least what RWS claims to justify the 0.45g pistol pellets compared to the 0.53g rifle pellets.

Hehe, but then the AR pellets should weigh something like 0,10g since they have a very long barrel and an extremely small 10p =)

Lss · Post by **Lss** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:47 am

ever tried throwing straw? going to the extreme end doesnt work either.

anyway i noticed that .45g pellets have lesser "kick" when fired. on my fwb 103 anyway.

jipe · Post by **jipe** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:00 am

The reason to have lightweight pellets for AP compared to AR is the lower velocity of AP compared to AR.

The explanation of Vogel is clearer: their lightweight match pellets are for pistol with lower velocity like pistol with a lever or break barrel while the heavier green match fits for rifle and pistol with higher velocity like 200bar pre-compressed air pistol. This could also explain why these yellow match pellets seems difficult to find these days.

Mellberg · Post by **Mellberg** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:36 am

I have a little less recoil with lighter pellets too. Not that it's much but it's slightly noticable.

Rose · Post by **Rose** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:08 am

I use JSB Match Diablo AR (4.5mm) pellets in my LP1. Steyr UK recommend heavier AR pellets as the Steyrs operate at a higher velocity than other APs.

Rose

.donthc · Post by **.donthc** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:33 pm

I'm am using .53 rifle pellets. have tried using pistol pellets, but i find them harder to control, being shot at a higher velocity, and despite all talks of pistol pellets staying less time in the barrel.

anyway, the differences are so small in all pellets, so i think they don't really have any real effects on your shooting.

i think it has something to do with the head, to think that we can shoot well with a particular type/brand of pellets. get someone to mix your pellets together, without your awareness, and you may not even notice the difference.

Mellberg · Post by **Mellberg** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:55 pm

It definately has impact on the scores. Why would I choose a pellet that hits with a +/- 12mm marginal instead of one that has a 2mm marginal? Because yes, some ammunition just won't do any good in some pistols, and some will do much better.

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:44 pm

Mellberg wrote:It definately has impact on the scores. Why would I choose a pellet that hits with a +/- 12mm marginal instead of one that has a 2mm marginal? Because yes, some ammunition just won't do any good in some pistols, and some will do much better.

Have you actaully seen quality pellets H&N, RWS, JSB that shoot +/- 12mm, thats a 24mm diameter or almost a 1 inch group at 10 m.

All the testing that I've seen with various top grade pellet are a single hole with slightly verying OD's.

When I was at RWS, Christian was saying that they were getting some very good groups with their new light weight pellets, I haven't tried them yet myself.

Mellberg · Post by **Mellberg** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:26 pm

Yes I've seen it. When I tested ammo on a training camp this winter we tested some batches of RWS and HN pellets in two Hämmerli AP40's and a FWB-something (one of the newer models) and most pellets performed very well but one batch of RWS (R10 I think) went all over the target with both Hammerlis and it performed poorly in the FWB (not as bad as with the AP40's tho). The FWB however performed excellent groupings with another batch of R10.

So I would say (imho) that it's pretty important that you test ammo even in an air pistol. The chance of getting bad ammo is small, but it's there. Most ammo will outperform most shooters.

I'm very lucky that I found a very good batch of easy to come by pellets for my AP40.

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:59 pm

Mellberg wrote:Yes I've seen it. When I tested ammo on a training camp this winter we tested some batches of RWS and HN pellets in two Hämmerli AP40's and a FWB-something (one of the newer models) and most pellets performed very well but one batch of RWS (R10 I think) went all over the target with both Hammerlis and it performed poorly in the FWB (not as bad as with the AP40's tho). The FWB however performed excellent groupings with another batch of R10.

So I would say (imho) that it's pretty important that you test ammo even in an air pistol. The chance of getting bad ammo is small, but it's there. Most ammo will outperform most shooters.

I'm very lucky that I found a very good batch of easy to come by pellets for my AP40.

Thats very interesting as the varibles in pellets are much less then those in .22LR, you only really have weight and diameter, no primer, powder, crimp, rim thickness to worry about.

Mellberg · Post by **Mellberg** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:35 am

Yes it's rather strange.

jipe · Post by **jipe** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:55 am

Mellberg wrote:Yes it's rather strange.

Couldn't it be caused by damaged pellets, some pellets in box damaged during transport, handling... ? I suppose you only tested some pellets of the box.

Mellberg · Post by **Mellberg** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:04 pm

I took 15 pellets out of the box. Probably a very bad batch, but still. It reached the market.

.donthc · Post by **.donthc** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:34 am

even if the pellets are defective. they should not be going all over the place as you described. i have shot pellets which have an almost flattened tail, and they shoot fine (i know it is damaging to gun, but its an experiment.)

i simply cannot believe that top-quality pellets such as RWS R10 (regardless of being defective or not defective), can "fly all over the place"

did you try out the pellets with a clamped gun?