centra device visierchild fur toz??????

bubba_zenetti · Post by **bubba_zenetti** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:48 am

it is made for the toz35. can anyone tell me what the heck this thing is used for?

http://www.shootingequipment.de/product ... 368738befe

deleted1 · Post by **deleted1** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:24 am

The translation of "Laserschriftet Orientierungshilfe" is Laser-marked guideline assistance. From the view of the device in place it seems to replace the left side of the TOZ rear sight. From the translation it is apparently a laser
device that helps zero the gun, find the target ????. Whether it is legal in ISSF rules for competition I don't really think so---but then we are only guessing. Mebbe one of our European experts can chime in with the latest dope on this little $50.00 chatchka.

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:39 am

You're looking way too far, methinks. It's just a manual for remembering the correct adjustment directions. The TOZ is quite tricky in this regard, and this would be the perfect solution for people who are tired of scrawled stickers on their grip.

Fortitudo Dei · Post by **Fortitudo Dei** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:34 pm

Yes - "Laserschriftet" refers to it being laser etched. However when I first glanced at it, it made me think of the weird parabolic mirror foresight system that Hammerli developed for the free pistol back in the mid-1960's. U.I.T at first approved it, then later banned it. I have only ever read a description of the system (which in itself is damn confusing) but have never seen one in the flesh. Has anyone ever shot with one before?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:02 pm

Fortitudo Dei wrote:Yes - "Laserschriftet" refers to it being laser etched. However when I first glanced at it, it may me think of the weird parabolic mirror foresight system that Hammerli developed for the free pistol back in the mid-1960's. U.I.T at first approved it, then later banned it. I have only ever read a description of the system (which in itself is damn confusing) but have never seen one in the flesh. Has anyone ever shot with one before?

Sounds interesting - can you post the description?

Fortitudo Dei · Post by **Fortitudo Dei** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:25 pm

Sounds interesting - can you post the description?

Here it is quoted directly from P.C. Freeman, Modern Pistol Shooting, Faber and Faber, London, 1968, pp 104-106.

“The mirror sight has been introduced to free pistol shooting by Reiny Ruess, a member of the Swiss National Team. It is described in the March 1967 edition of Hammerli News and the following description is adapted from this bulletin. The foresight is substituted by a parabolic mirror with a focal length of the distance between the mirror and the backsight. The conventional backsight is substituted by a small plate which is white on the target side with a black triangle whose apex is just below the centre of the plate. This triangle is reflected in the mirror and because the mirror is parabolic the focus to the eye of the reflected triangle is at infinity. The target is also at infinity to the eye. The eye can then focus on the target and the reflected sight at the same time. The backsight plate must be well illuminated and this sight is not suitable for indoor ranges.
The method of aiming is to bring the pistol into the aiming position and let the mirror cover the lower half of the aiming mark. Close the aiming eye and focus the other eye on the target. The aiming eye is then opened and the triangle will be seen in the mirror. The shooter then brings the triangle into the right position under the aiming mark and fires.
This method of aiming has the advantage that the eye is used in its most relaxed focus. Both eyes are open and conventional shooting glasses are not required. As the shooter grows older he finds that it becomes harder to focus at short distances and therefore this method will appeal to him.
This method of sights has been approved by the U.I.T Technical Commission.”

Which is not terribly clear – but it seems to indicate (as the attached pictures show) that the pistol is aimed with both eyes open and both the foresight (or its equivilent) and the target would be in sharp focus. If my interpretation of the diagram is correct, it would also appear to effectively double the sight radius (which may not actually be a good thing). It certainly would have been a paradigm shift away from the mantra – “foresight in focus, target blurry”.
It seems like it was an interesting idea that never really took off.

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:55 pm

You're right about the doubled sight radius. We have one of Reiny Ruess' originals in our collection - and while it's an interesting idea, I think it's terrible to shoot. But the principle works, there is only one thing to look at (beside the target).

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:30 am

I know someone who tried one of these mirror sights for a few months but gave up. It seems that it was very difficult to use in changing light conditions.

Incidentally, in case anybody wants to shoot one in competition, it is banned under ISSF rule 8.4.2.3