My rifle should be arriving at my FFL next week, and I would like to test a bunch of different ammo to see which shoots the best. I've read aoubt a number of methods for testing ammo, but many are conflicting and not all are available to me. So, I thought I would pick everyone's brain and see what you all recommend.
I don't have access to a vice, and don't really want to purchase one at this time. I've also read that because the gun does not recoil, it can introduce vibrations and harmonics that are different from when fired off the shoulder.
I do have access to this rest that I purchased:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.e ... mid=334387
As far as rests go, its very cheap and not that good. It will certainly hold my rifle in place at least once, though I question how well I can get back to that "zero" position with it. Also, can I truly be precise enough with peep sights to reposition the rifle in between shots for the purposes of ammo testing? I know we strive for this with all shooting, and that we can pretty close with prone shooting, but the rifle needs to be in EXACTLY the same position for ammo testing for it to mean anything. This is quite doable with a decent scope.
Some people have mentioned sandbags as ideal. They also aren't that expensive, so I could spring for some at this time. However, wouldn't I have the same issue as with my rest in that rezereoing the rifle would be difficult or impossible with any precision?
What are you recommendations? How do you guys test ammo in your rifle?
Ammo testing questions
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TargetTerror
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metermatch
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Ammo testing
Forget the machine rest or a sandbag or a bench rest shooter type rest.
Test ammo exactly like you are going to be shooting it - with the rifle in your shoulder.
All the prone shooters I know just shoot it prone.
Definately get a 20x to 40x scope on the rifle, and shoot prone, with a sandbag under your wrist under the forend. Not the gun on the sandbag, the sandbad under your wrist/sling/glove. That will steady you somewhat.
Start shooting at 100 yards. Usually an ammo that will shoot at 100 yards will shoot at 50 yards/meters. But the converse isn't always true. Some years ago, RWS R50 had a reputation of having sreaming-good lots here and there that would shoot fantastic at 50 yards, but sucked at 100 yards.
After you have eliminated the obvious garbage lots at 100 yds, shoot it at 50 yards. As a final test, shoot the top 3 lots in the wind, and use your gut feeling on which bucks the wind best. (and fewest flyers).
After testing, buy as much of that lot as you can. Which also means you want to make sure your supplier has enough of the ammo to make it worth your time. 5000 rounds is the absolute bare minimun. Think more like 10,000 to 20,000 rounds.
If you are less than a upper master level shooter, you don't need the top ammo. The mid grade target ammo is fine for expert and below. The club ammo is good enough for sharpshooter and below. If you start with this idea, than you can test the club or mid grade ammo, match it to your gun, and get surprisingly good results, and save a bundle of money.
I have also tested while using a chronograph at the same time. Can't say I found anything definitive, but if I had a toss-up between two different lots of ammo to choose from, than I would take the lot with the smallest standard deviation. So just shoot the ammo during testing through the chronograph at the same time. If you don't have a chrono, and don't really have the money for one, don't worry about it.
Do the same tests while changing torque on your action screws, to see what works best. Also, I have seen differences on guns with and without a sight tube on them. Remember, you change the harmonics with a sight tube.
All of this crap is why I wanted to become a pistol shooter.........
Jeff
Test ammo exactly like you are going to be shooting it - with the rifle in your shoulder.
All the prone shooters I know just shoot it prone.
Definately get a 20x to 40x scope on the rifle, and shoot prone, with a sandbag under your wrist under the forend. Not the gun on the sandbag, the sandbad under your wrist/sling/glove. That will steady you somewhat.
Start shooting at 100 yards. Usually an ammo that will shoot at 100 yards will shoot at 50 yards/meters. But the converse isn't always true. Some years ago, RWS R50 had a reputation of having sreaming-good lots here and there that would shoot fantastic at 50 yards, but sucked at 100 yards.
After you have eliminated the obvious garbage lots at 100 yds, shoot it at 50 yards. As a final test, shoot the top 3 lots in the wind, and use your gut feeling on which bucks the wind best. (and fewest flyers).
After testing, buy as much of that lot as you can. Which also means you want to make sure your supplier has enough of the ammo to make it worth your time. 5000 rounds is the absolute bare minimun. Think more like 10,000 to 20,000 rounds.
If you are less than a upper master level shooter, you don't need the top ammo. The mid grade target ammo is fine for expert and below. The club ammo is good enough for sharpshooter and below. If you start with this idea, than you can test the club or mid grade ammo, match it to your gun, and get surprisingly good results, and save a bundle of money.
I have also tested while using a chronograph at the same time. Can't say I found anything definitive, but if I had a toss-up between two different lots of ammo to choose from, than I would take the lot with the smallest standard deviation. So just shoot the ammo during testing through the chronograph at the same time. If you don't have a chrono, and don't really have the money for one, don't worry about it.
Do the same tests while changing torque on your action screws, to see what works best. Also, I have seen differences on guns with and without a sight tube on them. Remember, you change the harmonics with a sight tube.
All of this crap is why I wanted to become a pistol shooter.........
Jeff
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TargetTerror
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:17 pm
- Location: Boston, MA
Thanks for the info, metermatch! A couple of question on what you said though:
Why would I want to test ammo (in any gun) at a greater distance than what i will be shooting it at? I don't plan to shoot farther than 50 yards. Why would I want to test ammo at 100 yards? Wouldn't that be a waste like testing pellets from an air rifle at 20 meters?
Also, i'm shooting 50ft indoor gallery in my league right now. Its NRA style, so the 10 is pretty big. Would I likely notice much of a difference between ammo at such a short distance? (provided its all mid to high end grade?)
I hear you on the pistol front. That is my next foray :)
Why would I want to test ammo (in any gun) at a greater distance than what i will be shooting it at? I don't plan to shoot farther than 50 yards. Why would I want to test ammo at 100 yards? Wouldn't that be a waste like testing pellets from an air rifle at 20 meters?
Also, i'm shooting 50ft indoor gallery in my league right now. Its NRA style, so the 10 is pretty big. Would I likely notice much of a difference between ammo at such a short distance? (provided its all mid to high end grade?)
I hear you on the pistol front. That is my next foray :)
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metermatch
- Posts: 196
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:30 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
Ammo testing
My recommendation on testing at 100 yards was based on the assumption that you were shooting American conventional prone, shot at 50 yds, 50 meters, and 100 yards. It wasn't a recommendation to test at twice your normal shooting distance.
However, I would suspect shooting the ammo at 100 yards will help you select ammo for 50 yards, and the spread between ammo lots will be more noticable.
Again, most of the time a lot # of ammo that shoots at 100 yds will shoot at 50 yds, but not necessarily vice versa.
I have never shot at less than 50 yards, so I don't know about indoor, but my recollection from others over the years leads me to believe that 10m is far less demanding on ammo selection. So you might get by with less costly ammo.
Jeff
However, I would suspect shooting the ammo at 100 yards will help you select ammo for 50 yards, and the spread between ammo lots will be more noticable.
Again, most of the time a lot # of ammo that shoots at 100 yds will shoot at 50 yds, but not necessarily vice versa.
I have never shot at less than 50 yards, so I don't know about indoor, but my recollection from others over the years leads me to believe that 10m is far less demanding on ammo selection. So you might get by with less costly ammo.
Jeff
If you are shooting 50 feet indoors on the A17 target, don't waste your good ammo. Save that for 50 yards and beyond. As Jeff stated very well in another thread, a really good lot of ammo is hard to come by, and you should save it for the longer range matches.
The thing to avoid for the A17 target is ammo with bad fliers. You can tolerate a slightly bigger average group, but the ammo with occasional rounds that go "poof", "fwit", "wumpf" or "kaPOWWW" (I think that covers most of them) will ruin your score. I've had good luck with the middle grades of ammo, like Eley Club, Wolf Match Target and RWS Target for indoor A17 shooting, and some lots of Federal 711 have done very well.
When you move to the USA 50 target, ammo selection becomes a little more critical, although a good batch of reasonably priced ammo may suffice. I've been very happy with Wolf Match Extra for indoor use on the A36 or USA 50 targets, and as practice ammo for 50 and 100 yards outdoors. The batch I'm using now seems especially good.
For outdoor matches where my name and score are going to be hung up for all to see, I really haven't found any substitute for tested and selected lots of expensive ammo. When you consider entry fees, travel, vacation days, lodging and meals, it doesn't make sense to skimp on ammo.
The thing to avoid for the A17 target is ammo with bad fliers. You can tolerate a slightly bigger average group, but the ammo with occasional rounds that go "poof", "fwit", "wumpf" or "kaPOWWW" (I think that covers most of them) will ruin your score. I've had good luck with the middle grades of ammo, like Eley Club, Wolf Match Target and RWS Target for indoor A17 shooting, and some lots of Federal 711 have done very well.
When you move to the USA 50 target, ammo selection becomes a little more critical, although a good batch of reasonably priced ammo may suffice. I've been very happy with Wolf Match Extra for indoor use on the A36 or USA 50 targets, and as practice ammo for 50 and 100 yards outdoors. The batch I'm using now seems especially good.
For outdoor matches where my name and score are going to be hung up for all to see, I really haven't found any substitute for tested and selected lots of expensive ammo. When you consider entry fees, travel, vacation days, lodging and meals, it doesn't make sense to skimp on ammo.
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metermatch
- Posts: 196
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:30 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
Ammo
Some of the local prone shooters at LAR&R are shooting the Wolf Match Extra, and are having good luck with it. Particularily for the price.
I think it is going for about $400 a case
It may be a case of a very good "bang for the buck"
Jeff
I think it is going for about $400 a case
It may be a case of a very good "bang for the buck"
Jeff
The best groups fired at the Eley Customer Range runs in the 13-14mm, center to center range, at 50 meters.TargetTerror wrote:Also, i'm shooting 50ft indoor gallery in my league right now. Its NRA style, so the 10 is pretty big. Would I likely notice much of a difference between ammo at such a short distance? (provided its all mid to high end grade?)
If you're shooting at 50 feet don't worry too much. Go for reliability.
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TomN
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metermatch
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- Location: Los Angeles, CA
Ammo shelf life
I have heard of 20+ year old ammo shooting fine. So don't worry about buying extra ammo. It is not going to go bad in a year or two for sure.
I have some 20 year old Eley Club that I just shot, and i shoots exactly like I remember it did years ago.
But it was also stored indoors, in a closet. Avoid heat at all cost. Leaving it in the back of a car on a hot day is a sure way to screw it up.
I have been shooting some WW2 8mm Mauser ammo, that is still in perfect condition.
I think it is Hercules powder co that has some powder from the 1800's, that they periodically test, and it is still OK
Jeff
I have some 20 year old Eley Club that I just shot, and i shoots exactly like I remember it did years ago.
But it was also stored indoors, in a closet. Avoid heat at all cost. Leaving it in the back of a car on a hot day is a sure way to screw it up.
I have been shooting some WW2 8mm Mauser ammo, that is still in perfect condition.
I think it is Hercules powder co that has some powder from the 1800's, that they periodically test, and it is still OK
Jeff
Old Eley
Had a friend just sell a case of cardboard box Tenex for $1,500. Over my 40+ years of shooting I had a few lots that I believe could have shot one hole groups at 50 yards if I did my part. I did have at least a few 400-40x conventional matches and one 400 on the international target.