Recently experienced my third "proper" competition (Suis Ascore, lots of people, bright lights, famous faces etc).
OK - so I didn't shoot very well. Shame. BUT taking the good points, once I settled down (last thirty shots) I shot well (for me - an 89, 91 and 93).
Problem was the first 30 shots were a disaster - especially the first 10.
I knew I would be nervous, so I spent the first 10 minutes dry-firing and settling down.
Then I shot 10 sighters (scored 90 and weighted bang slap in the centre of the bull).
Then I flicked the switch for match - shot a few dry shots at the target - feeling relaxed, nice steady hold, clean release, etc - so I loaded.
I started shaking like a leaf (and sweating like a horse). Not "uncontrolable" in the conventional sense, but uncontrolable relative to my normal hold and to the preparatory drills leading up to this. This was NOT the autonomous nervous system response I was hoping for.
Consequently my first 10 shots were an embarrasment. My second 10 only slightly less so, and my third the equivalent to a bad practice day on my home range.
Is this is a common problem?
I should mention that I am quite used (20 odd yearsof experience) to standing up in front of 100s of people and talking for an hour without feeling stressed or nervous.
Assuming that competition convulsions (OK - thats a bit melodramatic) is not an uncommon problem, is there a way of training to reduce its effects? I guess the obvious solution is to experience more competitions.
Competition Jitters.
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Re: Competition Jitters.
You answered your own question. You have to train to compete to do well in competitions. With competition experience your tension will get lower and scores will go up.Mike S-J wrote: is there a way of training to reduce its effects? I guess the obvious solution is to experience more competitions.
My advice is that you should not try to force yourself to be calm, as it will probably get you even more tense. Instead, try to live with the nervousness and see it as a normal part of the competition. You will then losen up and feel more secure.
There are tons of litterature written about mental training. Do not see these books as bibles. Pick up a few simple advices that seams useful to you and use them in your daily training.
Good luck!
/Axel
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F. Paul in Denver
Mike,
I think we all experience what you did - I still do to a lesser extent. After my first match, I even used an analogy similar to yours, "How can I stand up in a courtroom and speak to a jury with my client's freedom on the line and feel as comfortable as though I was in my own living room and then freak out at a damned pistol AP match?!?!"
Here are some of the things I think are important to alleviate some of that self induced stress we put on ourselves.
First, breathing and relaxation exercises are a great deal of help. HOWEVER, if you employ these techniques, you should do them ALL the time which means including them in your training routine. If you only do it at a match, you are telling your body to relax because you anticipate a high stress event. This is likely to cause a fight or flight reaction and cause even more stress because it is a radical departure from your routine. The resulting jolt of adrenaline can be disastrous
Some of these relaxation techniques can be as simple as breathing exercises and visualization exercises.
Second - shoot lots of matches. It's like kissing a girl - the first time I did it I felt light headed enough to throw up. THe more you do it, the easier it is.
Third - remember that this is a game and nothing more. Nothing of any great importance is on the line. The score you shoot will not change your life or anyone else's.
Fourth - keep reminding yourself that this is the same target set at the same distance, using the same gun being fired by the same capable shooter. It's important that you feel confident in your abilities and equipment when you stride up to the line.
I always wear hearing protection - I find it helps keep out noise which always seem more distracting at a match than anywhere else. Again though, if you do it at a match, do it in training as well.
Take care Mike
F. Paul in Denver[/b]
I think we all experience what you did - I still do to a lesser extent. After my first match, I even used an analogy similar to yours, "How can I stand up in a courtroom and speak to a jury with my client's freedom on the line and feel as comfortable as though I was in my own living room and then freak out at a damned pistol AP match?!?!"
Here are some of the things I think are important to alleviate some of that self induced stress we put on ourselves.
First, breathing and relaxation exercises are a great deal of help. HOWEVER, if you employ these techniques, you should do them ALL the time which means including them in your training routine. If you only do it at a match, you are telling your body to relax because you anticipate a high stress event. This is likely to cause a fight or flight reaction and cause even more stress because it is a radical departure from your routine. The resulting jolt of adrenaline can be disastrous
Some of these relaxation techniques can be as simple as breathing exercises and visualization exercises.
Second - shoot lots of matches. It's like kissing a girl - the first time I did it I felt light headed enough to throw up. THe more you do it, the easier it is.
Third - remember that this is a game and nothing more. Nothing of any great importance is on the line. The score you shoot will not change your life or anyone else's.
Fourth - keep reminding yourself that this is the same target set at the same distance, using the same gun being fired by the same capable shooter. It's important that you feel confident in your abilities and equipment when you stride up to the line.
I always wear hearing protection - I find it helps keep out noise which always seem more distracting at a match than anywhere else. Again though, if you do it at a match, do it in training as well.
Take care Mike
F. Paul in Denver[/b]
Re: Competition Jitters.
It is certainly common but as mentioned it is something that you can train out of - or rather learn how to relax to overcome it.Axel wrote:My advice is that you should not try to force yourself to be calm, as it will probably get you even more tense. Instead, try to live with the nervousness and see it as a normal part of the competition. You will then losen up and feel more secure./AxelMike S-J wrote: is there a way of training to reduce its effects? I guess the obvious solution is to experience more competitions.
I disagree with the above poster though. You should learn how to relax yourself during competitions. There's plenty of books out there but you need to develop the skills and practice them at home and on your club range before you can expect to master them.
One of the techniques is I think called progressive muscular relaxation, but I don't have my books here - I'm meant to be working ;-) There are plenty of sport psychology books that describe the technique, and others, in detail.
Rob.
Re: Competition Jitters.
Ok, "you should learn how to relax yourself during competitions" I agree about that. How to do it is another story. What I have found out myself, and also read in books, is that when I accept the tension and learn to like it I actually calm myself down - no more jitters etc. Nervousness is a part of our sport, we have to live with it. Some tension/alertness is actually positive for performance - even for us shooters.RobStubbs wrote:It is certainly common but as mentioned it is something that you can train out of - or rather learn how to relax to overcome it.Axel wrote:My advice is that you should not try to force yourself to be calm, as it will probably get you even more tense. Instead, try to live with the nervousness and see it as a normal part of the competition. You will then losen up and feel more secure./AxelMike S-J wrote: is there a way of training to reduce its effects? I guess the obvious solution is to experience more competitions.
I disagree with the above poster though. You should learn how to relax yourself during competitions. There's plenty of books out there but you need to develop the skills and practice them at home and on your club range before you can expect to master them.
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Fred
Re: Competition Jitters.
Mike S-J wrote: I should mention that I am quite used (20 odd yearsof experience) to standing up in front of 100s of people and talking for an hour without feeling stressed or nervous.
Mike,
One more thought - or rather a question - in addition to the above good advice.
What happened the first time you stood up in front of 100s etc.? Were you as nervous for that experience? If so, how did you gain the confidence you now have? If not, what was different - did you feel better prepared?
Every person has to learn to deal with this problem for himself - there is no single simple procedure that automatically works for everybody. My point is that you already know how to solve this problem, since you have done it before.
HTH,
FredB
Fred,
Some good points. I suspect the anxiety stems from a lack of self confidence and that fear of failure (or embarassment). For me experience is very important. By that I mean practicing competitions by actually doing lots of them. You also have to not think about possible failures. That will help put you in good stead.
I advise our shooters in their first competition to treat it as just that, the first one. Don't expect to do well, treat it as a learning experience and build from there. That worked great for one guy who shot very well in his first comp, only to get the jitters in the next one.
Whatever you end up doing, remember you do it because you enjoy it. Take the good bits from it, the experience the good series and forget the rest.
Rob.
Some good points. I suspect the anxiety stems from a lack of self confidence and that fear of failure (or embarassment). For me experience is very important. By that I mean practicing competitions by actually doing lots of them. You also have to not think about possible failures. That will help put you in good stead.
I advise our shooters in their first competition to treat it as just that, the first one. Don't expect to do well, treat it as a learning experience and build from there. That worked great for one guy who shot very well in his first comp, only to get the jitters in the next one.
Whatever you end up doing, remember you do it because you enjoy it. Take the good bits from it, the experience the good series and forget the rest.
Rob.
What finally got me over it was when I shot a major match that included practice days. Initially when I stepped up for my practice time I had all of the usually match trembles and nervousness. After all, it felt like a match environment- electronic targets, lots of people, very official, etc. However, as I continued to shoot I could feel my mind grasping the realization that this was practice. It was more than me telling myself that my performance didn't matter (which we all try to do at a match, with limited success), it was my mind realizing in this scenario, it was true- it really was just practice and really didn't matter. I have practiced in many different places and many different environments, and this was nothing more than yet another place to practice. At that point I was able to relax, and lost the jitters. (After all, who gets the jitters in practice?) Plus, then all of the "magic," "mysteriousness" and "awe" (not quite the right words) of the match atmosphere kind of lost its oomph- after all, this was just me and my gun practicing like we've done in lots of different places. It really and truly became just another place to practice, and was no longer a super-special, genuflect-when-you-come-to-the-line, awe-inspiring match atmosphere. I was also able to get in two more practice sessions that day, which further helped develop that feeling. The fact that I was able to "try again" two more times that day further reinforced the "just another shooting range" atmosphere that I was now associating with those conditions. At the end of that match looking back over everything, the practice sessions and how they helped me put match jitters behind me were the highlight of the event.
So, my recommendation would be to participate in a big match that gives you the opportunity to have several practice sessions. Hopefully it'll work for you the way it did for me.
Thanks,
Ted
So, my recommendation would be to participate in a big match that gives you the opportunity to have several practice sessions. Hopefully it'll work for you the way it did for me.
Thanks,
Ted
/
" Match Nerves " varies in intensity from person to person and varies in the same person as he gains experience.... it either gets progressively better , or sometimes progressively worse through facilitation of negative emotions.
The above posts all offer useful and practical advice... but sometimes the 'jitters' are hard to control inspite of all efforts .
Sometimes something like a Beta Blocker , taken before a match can help... Beta Blockers tend to block the secretion of " fight or flight" hormones [ Epinephrin and Norepinephrin ] . Stress is generated in the brain cortex and is mediated to the body through these hormones , that cause the sweating, palpitations and tremors , they also may reduce significantly one's ability to concentrate .
They are significantly more useful to a shooter than Tranquillizers cause the latter affect reflexes and mentation . You are mentally 'aroused' by the Match situation but only the negative aspects of this hyper-arousal are diminished.
So , just like someone with a healing leg may use a stick to lean on , discarding it when his leg gets better ; you can use the Beta Blockers to 'help you' control your anxiety till the techniques and experience outlined in the above posts 'kick in' .
Elmas
/
" Match Nerves " varies in intensity from person to person and varies in the same person as he gains experience.... it either gets progressively better , or sometimes progressively worse through facilitation of negative emotions.
The above posts all offer useful and practical advice... but sometimes the 'jitters' are hard to control inspite of all efforts .
Sometimes something like a Beta Blocker , taken before a match can help... Beta Blockers tend to block the secretion of " fight or flight" hormones [ Epinephrin and Norepinephrin ] . Stress is generated in the brain cortex and is mediated to the body through these hormones , that cause the sweating, palpitations and tremors , they also may reduce significantly one's ability to concentrate .
They are significantly more useful to a shooter than Tranquillizers cause the latter affect reflexes and mentation . You are mentally 'aroused' by the Match situation but only the negative aspects of this hyper-arousal are diminished.
So , just like someone with a healing leg may use a stick to lean on , discarding it when his leg gets better ; you can use the Beta Blockers to 'help you' control your anxiety till the techniques and experience outlined in the above posts 'kick in' .
Elmas
/
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john bickar
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aurorapolice02_11
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Hmmm...
I suppose we now know what country WADA better test first at the next ISSF match... ; )
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F. Paul in Denver
F. Paul in Denver wrote:Not sure about Egypt but beta blockers are only available by prescription here in the US.
I doubt many physicians would prescribe them for "match nerves."
I did not know that the ISSF outlaws beta blocker use...
Do they consider Tranquillizers illegal for matches too ?
I think some shooters really have a hard time with nerves and
would benefit from something to help them overcome it.
Do you all believe that the prohibition of Beta Blockers is a sound
ISSF decision ??
Elmas
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Bill Poole
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- Contact:
I don't think its an ISSF decision,
http://www.wada-ama.org/en/
its the world anti doping agency WADA
here is the list:
http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/docu ... 6_LIST.pdf
and
http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/docu ... Arabic.pdf
if Beta Blockers truly help calm a shooter, then it would be unethical to deliberately use them.
A few things bother me about the "list". One is that many legitimate pharmacuticals are on the list and an athlete who does not insist his doctor read this list could take something for a real medical condition and not realize its on the list (accidental violation)
Another accidental violation that might occur is so many drugs have multiple names and one might be prescribed such-such a drug and carefully look over the list and not see it, but not realize it is listed on the list by another name.
a lot of us shooters are middle aged men a population with a high incidence of high blood pressure.... half the drugs for that condition are on the banned list. including Beta blockers. I heard a rumor about a shooter failing the test and missing a trip to the olympics for taking a legitimate medicine (which in no way enhances performance) for a legitimate problem.
One other problem is that an athlete might forego needed treatment in order to avoid taking a "banned" drug. Many drugs can be taken with a "theraputic exemption though.
Another thing that scares me is sabotage, someone slipping something into the top athlete's food 2 days before the tryouts. I don't think that is a big problem tho, certainly not in our sport.
One other potential violation that is about half sabatage and half accident is if one is taking over-the-counter vitamins, remedies or supplements and carefully reads the ingredients and does not see anything on the list, but something banned is included but it is either not listed or named something else, this could especially be a problem with poorly labled imported or locally made or folk/herbal medicines.
it might be different in the big money/visibility sports, but in shooting, the "anti" scares me more than the "doping"
just one guy's biased opinion...
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
http://www.wada-ama.org/en/
its the world anti doping agency WADA
here is the list:
http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/docu ... 6_LIST.pdf
and
http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/docu ... Arabic.pdf
if Beta Blockers truly help calm a shooter, then it would be unethical to deliberately use them.
A few things bother me about the "list". One is that many legitimate pharmacuticals are on the list and an athlete who does not insist his doctor read this list could take something for a real medical condition and not realize its on the list (accidental violation)
Another accidental violation that might occur is so many drugs have multiple names and one might be prescribed such-such a drug and carefully look over the list and not see it, but not realize it is listed on the list by another name.
a lot of us shooters are middle aged men a population with a high incidence of high blood pressure.... half the drugs for that condition are on the banned list. including Beta blockers. I heard a rumor about a shooter failing the test and missing a trip to the olympics for taking a legitimate medicine (which in no way enhances performance) for a legitimate problem.
One other problem is that an athlete might forego needed treatment in order to avoid taking a "banned" drug. Many drugs can be taken with a "theraputic exemption though.
Another thing that scares me is sabotage, someone slipping something into the top athlete's food 2 days before the tryouts. I don't think that is a big problem tho, certainly not in our sport.
One other potential violation that is about half sabatage and half accident is if one is taking over-the-counter vitamins, remedies or supplements and carefully reads the ingredients and does not see anything on the list, but something banned is included but it is either not listed or named something else, this could especially be a problem with poorly labled imported or locally made or folk/herbal medicines.
it might be different in the big money/visibility sports, but in shooting, the "anti" scares me more than the "doping"
just one guy's biased opinion...
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
It is the shooters responsibility to check these things out - I always do. All drugs have the active ingredients listed so it's easy enough to check them and they don't change between brands. You can always ask your doctor to check them out for you as well - but don't just take their word for it.Bill Poole wrote:Another accidental violation that might occur is so many drugs have multiple names and one might be prescribed such-such a drug and carefully look over the list and not see it, but not realize it is listed on the list by another name.
<snip>
just one guy's biased opinion...
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
If you are on anything that is prohibited I believe you can ask the ISSF for exemption, i.e. approval to use it, but you obviously need written approval before you compete whilst on the medication, otherwise you risk a potential ban.
Rob.
Bill, thank you very much for providing this WADA list.... I actually read it all a few minutes ago .Bill Poole wrote:I don't think its an ISSF decision,
http://www.wada-ama.org/en/
its the world anti doping agency WADA
here is the list:
http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/docu ... 6_LIST.pdf
and
http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/docu ... Arabic.pdf
if Beta Blockers truly help calm a shooter, then it would be unethical to deliberately use them.
A few things bother me about the "list". One is that many legitimate pharmacuticals are on the list and an athlete who does not insist his doctor read this list could take something for a real medical condition and not realize its on the list (accidental violation)
Another accidental violation that might occur is so many drugs have multiple names and one might be prescribed such-such a drug and carefully look over the list and not see it, but not realize it is listed on the list by another name.
a lot of us shooters are middle aged men a population with a high incidence of high blood pressure.... half the drugs for that condition are on the banned list. including Beta blockers. I heard a rumor about a shooter failing the test and missing a trip to the olympics for taking a legitimate medicine (which in no way enhances performance) for a legitimate problem.
One other problem is that an athlete might forego needed treatment in order to avoid taking a "banned" drug. Many drugs can be taken with a "theraputic exemption though.
just one guy's biased opinion...
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
What kind of convulted paranoid mind(s) have compiled this diabolical list , a list that prohibits things like Insulin and Tamoxifen ( a drug that women with breast cancer take to suppress recurrence ) .
I think that they have definitely gone too far ....
****
Perhaps , my being a surgeon , a doctor.... makes me lean towards alleviating physical suffering.. after all its my professional duty !
So I still think that anyone with serious 'match jitters' should be allowed some means to make him/her more comfortable as he practices the sport he enjoys.
Jittery shooters are not gold medallists by any means.... so if they will not unfairly snatch the gold or silver from some deserving shooter, why should we watch them suffer in our midst ?
Elmas
..
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David Levene
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The resource I always use to check any medication is the Drugs Information Database. Although it was developed by UK Sport I believe it has now been expanded to include many "over the counters" bought in other countries. It gives the ingredients as well as their WADA status.RobStubbs wrote:It is the shooters responsibility to check these things out - I always do. All drugs have the active ingredients listed so it's easy enough to check them and they don't change between brands. You can always ask your doctor to check them out for you as well - but don't just take their word for it.
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Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
Perhaps that is why USAS programs focus on younger shooters? :-)Elmas wrote:What kind of convulted paranoid mind(s) have compiled this diabolical list , a list that prohibits things like Insulin and Tamoxifen ( a drug that women with breast cancer take to suppress recurrence ) .Bill Poole wrote: a lot of us shooters are middle aged men a population with a high incidence of high blood pressure.... half the drugs for that condition are on the banned list. including Beta blockers.
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Guest
Perhaps , my being a surgeon , a doctor.... makes me lean towards alleviating physical suffering.. after all its my professional duty !
SUFFERING??? Since when is the natural anxiety we feel when doing something new and exciting considered "suffering?"
Taken to the next logical step, how about prescribriing tranquilizers and beta blockers to nervous brides, nervous first graders on the first day of class or better yet to med students taking school exams or doctors doing their very first surgery. Hell, I think I could use some beta blocker after I get my doctor's bill !
Ahhh, what a wonderful world it would be to live on a planet inhabited by very calm zombies.
Prescribing medication to alleviate a natural and healthy response to stimuli is symptomatic of an insidious trend to medicate EVERYTHING and EVERYONE. The seduction is very hard to resist - after all, drugs are so much more effective than old fashioned hard work, mental preparation and self confidence borne of experience.
If you want to discharge your duty to alleviate suffering there are plenty of places in the world to see REAL suffering. Just read the newspapers. You are not likely to find many sufferers among competitive shooters.
By the way, if these types of drugs were allowed for "nervous shooters" who "wouldnt snatch any medals anyway", you can bet the top shooters would have a very good reason to start using them too.
Sorry for the rant folks. It's difficult to believe that a member of the profession of healing in whom people likely entrust their lives, could make such a suggestion.
[/quote]
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Steve Swartz
I had high blood pressure so high it was giving me migraines (and qualified for a disability pension).
Diet, exercise, sodium control, etc. etc. for years and years helped only a little.
Beta blockers worked GREAT!!!!!
A few years ago I started shooting international in earnest and of course gave them up. I am now on WADA approved medications that, frankly, don't work worth a crap.
Match jitters? Heck yeah- I have had several bouts of match jitters that have seriously affected my performance.
It's all about choices.
I choose to shoot clean (at the risk of my long term health) and take my lumps like everyone else.
Controlling anxiety is a fundamental challenge in mastery of this sport folks. It wouldn't be the same without it. This issue is beyond just a technical improvement in the accuracy or reliability of the equipment. Allowing us to "dope away" match anxiety would fundamentally alter the nature of the sport.
It's supposed to be HARD people. If it were EASY it wouldn't be FUN.
Steve Swartz
Personal note: Champions play by the rules and win anyway in spite of the "unfair" position certain rules may put them in. The playing field isn't supposed to be "level" in this sense- the better man is supposed to win. There's only one gold medal. BRING IT ON!
Diet, exercise, sodium control, etc. etc. for years and years helped only a little.
Beta blockers worked GREAT!!!!!
A few years ago I started shooting international in earnest and of course gave them up. I am now on WADA approved medications that, frankly, don't work worth a crap.
Match jitters? Heck yeah- I have had several bouts of match jitters that have seriously affected my performance.
It's all about choices.
I choose to shoot clean (at the risk of my long term health) and take my lumps like everyone else.
Controlling anxiety is a fundamental challenge in mastery of this sport folks. It wouldn't be the same without it. This issue is beyond just a technical improvement in the accuracy or reliability of the equipment. Allowing us to "dope away" match anxiety would fundamentally alter the nature of the sport.
It's supposed to be HARD people. If it were EASY it wouldn't be FUN.
Steve Swartz
Personal note: Champions play by the rules and win anyway in spite of the "unfair" position certain rules may put them in. The playing field isn't supposed to be "level" in this sense- the better man is supposed to win. There's only one gold medal. BRING IT ON!