I go shooting my LP 1. I shoot a 5 group and than adjust my sights for the 5 group being left. Than I shoot 5 again and adjust as now it seems right or maybe still left or maybe high or mayby low. This goes on all day!
I'm not getting any good shooting in as the setting of my sights is taking up the day.Anyone have a similar problem. Any solution???I know I suck in shooting! Thanks Ron
ADJUSTING THE PISTOL
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Steve Swartz
Sounds like what is commonly called "chasing your sights."
This is a bad thing to do (but an easy trap to fall into, trust me) for a wide variety of reasons.
The only way to avoid it is to not do it.
Shoot your best (subconscious release) 30 shot group on the same target. Adjust your sights based on the "center of mass" for the 30 shots. Then don't touch your sights ever again unless you catch someone in the act of moving your sights on you- or you drop your gun off the bench and the sights get knocked about.
Here's the deal: the only time your sights will "move" on you is if *you* are doing something (grip, stance, slapping at trigger, focusing over the front sight, etc) different.*
So basically, if you "have to" move your sights, it is a WARNING FLAG that you have changed something in your technique.
Instead of adjusting your sights, adjust your technique back to the way you're supposed to be doing it.
Let the flames begin (again) . . .
Steve Swartz
[Yes, we have all heard that old chestnut about "lights up, sights up" etc. etc. referring to sight adjustments necessary to accomodate different lighting conditions across various ranges. Also two different electronic target firing poinjts may be calibrated differently from each other. Et Cetera. Bottom Line: until or unless you are already executing your technique 100% consistently, those reasons are a distraction.]
This is a bad thing to do (but an easy trap to fall into, trust me) for a wide variety of reasons.
The only way to avoid it is to not do it.
Shoot your best (subconscious release) 30 shot group on the same target. Adjust your sights based on the "center of mass" for the 30 shots. Then don't touch your sights ever again unless you catch someone in the act of moving your sights on you- or you drop your gun off the bench and the sights get knocked about.
Here's the deal: the only time your sights will "move" on you is if *you* are doing something (grip, stance, slapping at trigger, focusing over the front sight, etc) different.*
So basically, if you "have to" move your sights, it is a WARNING FLAG that you have changed something in your technique.
Instead of adjusting your sights, adjust your technique back to the way you're supposed to be doing it.
Let the flames begin (again) . . .
Steve Swartz
[Yes, we have all heard that old chestnut about "lights up, sights up" etc. etc. referring to sight adjustments necessary to accomodate different lighting conditions across various ranges. Also two different electronic target firing poinjts may be calibrated differently from each other. Et Cetera. Bottom Line: until or unless you are already executing your technique 100% consistently, those reasons are a distraction.]
Thanks Steve
You sound like you nailed it. Chasing your sights, didn't know there was a name for it but it can pis_ you off when you keep doing it. Thanks alot! Will try tomorrow.How do you adjust for the center of the 30 shots.One click for each 1.2 mm?
I got to a point today where I was hitting in the black all around but equal space up down side to side so I thought if I could now shrink the circle of shots about an inch I would be doing good. Thanks Ron
I got to a point today where I was hitting in the black all around but equal space up down side to side so I thought if I could now shrink the circle of shots about an inch I would be doing good. Thanks Ron
Just an old idea with a "newer" interpretation---that is just "shot chasing" as pointed out. I usually keep the first target as a base for all other targets during a practise session. After 5 or 6 targets I like to look at the "base #1 target and look at the overall grouping---than I can get an idea of my errors and/or make some compromise form of sight adjustment based on more than 5 rds.
Hey Steve Or Bob
I shot 30 shots at this target as Steve recommended.Shows alot more than a 10 shot target.Steve or Bob how would you adjust your sights for this target shooting?Ron
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- 30 shots
- target2.JPG (38.86 KiB) Viewed 2650 times
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Steve Swartz
Down 4, Right 1.
Then shoot another 30-shot target.
Rought cut "Center of Mass" is to visually kind of exclude any really wide shots and focus on where the bulk/majority of shots are falling. Adjust sights to center that portion of shots.
Next step *after* super-gluing sight setting is to begin to get comfortable "calling" your shots. During/after follow through, picture in your mind exactly where you thought the shot fell. Mark it on a diagram. Then, check where the shot actually fell.
After you get good at calling your shots, sight adjustment process is a little more subtle. Shoot- and call- ten or more shots. Then look at difference between where shost fell and your calls. Is there a pattern? Let's say 8 out of ten of your "calls" were higher than actual. Adjust your sights up. 7 out of ten are to the right? Adjust your sights to the right.
Adjust your sights so that the shots fall close to your call. Of course, if you aren't skilled at calling your shots, this will actually make "chasing your sights" even worse! It's very important to do the "shoot 30/set it and forget it" first, and develop yiouir skill at calling your shots *before* trying to make any sight corrections based on your shot calls!
WHEN SHOTS DON"T FALL WHERE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO, IT ISN"T YOUR SIGHTS THAT NEED ADJUSTMENT!
Good shooting by the way! Concentrate on keeping front sight in focus, keep sights aligned, accept your settle, and releasing the shot subconsciously.
Steve Swartz
Then shoot another 30-shot target.
Rought cut "Center of Mass" is to visually kind of exclude any really wide shots and focus on where the bulk/majority of shots are falling. Adjust sights to center that portion of shots.
Next step *after* super-gluing sight setting is to begin to get comfortable "calling" your shots. During/after follow through, picture in your mind exactly where you thought the shot fell. Mark it on a diagram. Then, check where the shot actually fell.
After you get good at calling your shots, sight adjustment process is a little more subtle. Shoot- and call- ten or more shots. Then look at difference between where shost fell and your calls. Is there a pattern? Let's say 8 out of ten of your "calls" were higher than actual. Adjust your sights up. 7 out of ten are to the right? Adjust your sights to the right.
Adjust your sights so that the shots fall close to your call. Of course, if you aren't skilled at calling your shots, this will actually make "chasing your sights" even worse! It's very important to do the "shoot 30/set it and forget it" first, and develop yiouir skill at calling your shots *before* trying to make any sight corrections based on your shot calls!
WHEN SHOTS DON"T FALL WHERE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO, IT ISN"T YOUR SIGHTS THAT NEED ADJUSTMENT!
Good shooting by the way! Concentrate on keeping front sight in focus, keep sights aligned, accept your settle, and releasing the shot subconsciously.
Steve Swartz
adjust 1
Steve before you got back I made two ajustments. This target was shot 30 after 5 clicks left and 5 clicks high. Steyr settings backwards. See next target.
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- 30 shots 1st adjustment
- target3.JPG (17.96 KiB) Viewed 2637 times
2nd adjustment
After the last target I made adjustment 2. Gave it 10 clicks H only, we shot this target. Should I stop at this setting and practice? Ron
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- 2nd adjustment shot 30
- target4.JPG (22.07 KiB) Viewed 2634 times
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
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Re: 2nd adjustment
Yes, unless you're in a match and need to maximise your score.darticus wrote:Should I stop at this setting and practice?
Also, make sure your shooting kit includes a clear diagram telling you which way to turn the sight screws to move the shots in the direction you want. Adjusting the sights the wrong way in a match is unforgivable.
A useful crib note is the number of clicks to take the sights from their lowest physical level to your approximate shooting zero. This is handy if you shoot more than one distance/diagram with the same pistol, it is also a useful precaution to take the sights down to prevent springs/ball bearings from becoming unseated during flight.
I like to put a couple of sticks on the gun recording the direction, changes and from zero point; I say two as equipment control could cover over one of the sticker!
Enjoy your shooting!
I like to put a couple of sticks on the gun recording the direction, changes and from zero point; I say two as equipment control could cover over one of the sticker!
Enjoy your shooting!
Regarding your last target... You look pretty darn consistent, barring those couple high flyers. Are you spotting after each shot and noting what you did for those?
When starting out - Once I had my ducks in a row with regard to natural point of aim, sight/target focus, breathing, grip, and trigger control, I was clustering mine as best as my "wobble zone" would permit. Any stray shots and I'd just go back to the above-mentioned basics. Always a result of a breakdwn somewhere amongst them as to why a shot went bad.
If you haven't already read.... The Bullseye Pistol site's Army Marksmanhip training guide is a Bible of the basics. Once you have that down you can just use the "shot wheel", a clock-type reference picture (probably can find with a search here) for diagnosing what you're doing wrong - 9 o' clock: too much/too little finger on trigger, etc...
Sorry for rambling. Perhaps you've already done all of the above. Regardless, good luck!
When starting out - Once I had my ducks in a row with regard to natural point of aim, sight/target focus, breathing, grip, and trigger control, I was clustering mine as best as my "wobble zone" would permit. Any stray shots and I'd just go back to the above-mentioned basics. Always a result of a breakdwn somewhere amongst them as to why a shot went bad.
If you haven't already read.... The Bullseye Pistol site's Army Marksmanhip training guide is a Bible of the basics. Once you have that down you can just use the "shot wheel", a clock-type reference picture (probably can find with a search here) for diagnosing what you're doing wrong - 9 o' clock: too much/too little finger on trigger, etc...
Sorry for rambling. Perhaps you've already done all of the above. Regardless, good luck!
top shots
I was shooting too high on the last target so I had to set sights to lower the hit but I turned the adjustment toward lower instead of higher for Steyr.They wouldn't be there if I wasn't sleeping.Thanks gotta check out that book you said.
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Guest
Thanks Guys great info!
Worked with my LP 1 today and set up my LP 10.Now I can practice and hope to improve.I guess I can make further adjustments in the sights as needed in checking and compareing many targets. I think I gotta get my arms and fingers to cooperate first. Ron
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Steve Swartz
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Nicole Hamilton
- Posts: 477
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:17 pm
- Location: Redmond, Washington, USA
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I find it useful to translate from mm/click to clicks/scoring ring since, when you're looking at your target through a scope (or even if you bring back to examine) it's a lot more convenient to estimate how many rings you're off than it is to pull out a ruler and measure mm. For example, I have a Steyr LP-10P for which one click (horizontally or vertically) = 1.2 mm at 10m (same as for the LP-1.) Since a scoring ring is 8 mm, this means it takes 8/1.2 = 6-2/3 clicks/ring to move the group.
So here's the little cheat-sheet I keep with my Steyr:
One ring = 6-2/3 clicks
H moves down
T moves up
R moves left
L moves right
In the original example, target2.jpg, and assuming this target was consistent with others you'd shot, I'd have estimated you were about 2.5 rings high (or a little less if you discard outliers) and one ring left, meaning I'd have adjusted the sights to move the group down 17 clicks and right 6 clicks.
So here's the little cheat-sheet I keep with my Steyr:
One ring = 6-2/3 clicks
H moves down
T moves up
R moves left
L moves right
In the original example, target2.jpg, and assuming this target was consistent with others you'd shot, I'd have estimated you were about 2.5 rings high (or a little less if you discard outliers) and one ring left, meaning I'd have adjusted the sights to move the group down 17 clicks and right 6 clicks.