Used free pistol question

[Steve Swartz]

The TOZ is probably the most popular (overall) free pistol you will find on the firing line, in gunshops, in attics, in gun safes, etc. etc. etc.

Yes, parts are plentiful as well as advice and tips.

Lots of people have shot lots of matches with the TOZ and obviously therefore lots of really good scores have been shot with the TOZ. During a time period (of a couple of decades or so) when *everyone* is shooting a gun, obviously matches will be won and records set with it.

That having been said, why are some shooters trading in their TOZ for something else?

Well, I can't answer that for everyone, but can speak to why some may have.

The TOZ is an ancient design with certain "personality" traits that may or may not be endearing to the individual shooter. It suffers from an excess of moving bits that flip and slap around in truly "Rube Goldbergian" fashion. These bits wear out (There is usually a market-forces based reason why spare parts are readily available. Ditto for repair expertise.) My particular gun suffered from the sear engagement screw continually backing out- in full defiance of Loc-Tite chemistry- in the middle of key matches.

Sear engagement is a pretty important thing.

Toss in the inability to adjust rear notch width on the fly etc. and it does have some (perhaps minor) limitations.

But there are many endearing qualities in that TOZ personality as well- like a super adjustable trigger; the fact that lots of people shoot them, know how to fix them, and have bags of spare parts in their gunboxes.

*And* much like very popular automobiles, you will see some "custom rides" out there on the firing line. I think the BBC is planning on a new TV show called "Pimp My Toz" (chat with USAMU shooters for details!).

I didn't *dislike* my Toz; and, aside from having the exciting variable trigger pull feature (with "Random Cocking Action!"), would not have gotten rid of it.

Steve Swartz

[K38]

I LOVE "Pimp My TOZ"! or "Extreme Makeover, ISSF Version" or perhaps "What Not to Shoot"! OK I'll stop. I have heard that the Plexiglass sights on the Morini CM80 are no longer legal. I cannot however quote chapter and verse, so I could be wrong. I have the supercomp version and I belive the difference is that it has a bloop tube of about 6" or so instead of the big hook front sight. You can use the plexiglass or a metal front sight . I prefer the hook, and I like the strange rear sight placement as my old eyes work better with it farther away. The sights are also fixed to the barrel, front and rear. You can easily take the barrel off to clean it and it holds zero well. I also have a TOZ with nice Rink Grips. Sort of wish I had bought a CM84 as in the end there was not much price difference. My friend Don Nygord always thought there was something special about the TOZ, and I believe him.

Dwight

[Mikey]

I have a Toz 35 but have been using a CM84E for the last 6 months.

Whilst the CM84E is a good gun and has a lot going for it I am heading back to the Toz.

The CM84E has an extremely crisp trigger, a bit too much for my liking, and was also quite fussy in the ammunition, Eley ammo proved a pain apart from not grouping very well the cases did not always extract. The extractor on the CM84E is a bit too small and can easily slip past a case rim without ejecting it.

But as usual it came down to personal choice, I am sure if I didn't have the Toz I could live quite happily with the CM84E.

Mikey

[K38]

I have been very pleased with RWS ammo lately. It goes Bang every time in any pistol, and my Pardini SP gun loves it, 100% function. I have not tried the expensive R50 stuff yet, but I'll bet it's pretty good.


Dwight

Hooray! I think found a new shooting Range in my town today. I may have to shoot a combat type match to fit in, but they have ranges to 200Yards.

[Trident]

Trident,

I wonder if you would explain more fully the difference(es) between the regular CM80 and the Super Comp version? I have never seen this described, and plexiglass sights do sound very interesting!

Thanks,
FredB

FredB,

The regular CM-80 has a "hook" sight that is a simple piece of metal that extends from the muzzle to provide a sight picture. The CM-80 Super Comp has a sleeve or "tube" of metal that extends from the muzzle which allows the front sight to be rotated around the barrel and allows for different sights (iron sights or plexiglass (which last time I checked is still legal to use since it is not an optical sight and is an open sight). This system keeps the gunpowder off the front sight in comparison with the regular CM-80 and allows the user to set up the angle that the shooter has their hand to the floor (canted at a certain angle or not), or to have a short sight radius or a long sight radius.

To address someone else's concern, ISS still has brand new Morini grips for these as far as I know and the side lever on mine has never been a problem or vibrated out of the frame. ISS also still has parts for these guns and may have one lying around for sale.

I have seen locktite used on that particular screw before by other people. The CM-80's held up pretty good for the collegiate team that I used to be on, and we never had reliability problems with them. The trigger on these guns are incredible which is the other reason I like to use it. The gun came with three different blocks of plexiglass front sights that had different widths painted on them. In addition the gun had two iron sight inserts that came with it as well.

If you want post your email address up and I will send you a photo of what mine looks like.

Trident

[Fred]

Trident,

Thanks much for the information and offer of pictures, which I would like to see (email below). Maybe I will see the added advantages of the super comp system when I look at the pictures, but even with the "plain" system you can cant the front sight and change the sight radius. In fact the CM80 may be the most adjustable FP ever??

Thanks again,
FredB

frbauerREMOVE@msn.com

[Trident]

Trident,

Thanks much for the information and offer of pictures, which I would like to see (email below). Maybe I will see the added advantages of the super comp system when I look at the pictures, but even with the "plain" system you can cant the front sight and change the sight radius. In fact the CM80 may be the most adjustable FP ever??

Thanks again,
FredB

frbauerREMOVE@msn.com

Hi Fred,

I will get some digital photos to you sometime this week (hopefully tomorrow). The biggest advantage is that gun powder residue does not interfere with the front sight with the supercomp since the front sight is mounted on a tube. I also like the ability to interchange the front sight with so many different choices. With the plexiglass front sights you could easily tell if your front post was over or under the back sight blade - which I really really like. It makes it much easier to line up on target. The Morini is so adjustable that I really do not understand why more people don't use it or why Morini hasn't tried to reproduce some of those characteristics in their new free pistols.

Trident

[Trident]

Fred,

I tried to send you those pictures through email and it stated that the email addess did not exist. If anyone wants those pictures or wants to post them up here please let me know and I will send them to you. I also took a picture of the rest of the equipment that I use.

Trident

[Fred]

Trident,

Sorry about that - I should have mentioned to remove the "REMOVE" in my email address. Apparently posting a usable email address tends to attract automated spam, so that's why I inserted the "REMOVE".

FredB

frbauerREMOVE@msn.com

[Trident]

Fred,

Did you get the pictures in your email? I did not know how to post the pictures to this site.

Trident