Help a rookie

[Cheng]

Okay everyone, Got the LP-50 finally. Now where can i go on the web to find out how to fit the gun to my hand and start practicing w/ correct technique to avoid bad habits. Basically, i need a reference for the basics of competition air pistol.

Thanks.

Cheng

[Guest]

http://www.nygordprecision.com/

Click on "Nygord's Notes" on the left of this page.

[Cheng]

Guest,

Thanks!

[cdf]

The Target Shooting Canada web site has some very good material for down load, including the AMU (army marksmanship unit ) manual . it also gives you a lot of links . Our host's site has a lot of great stuff .

The advice I would give you is work on one variable at a time , record the change and record results . It takes time . Try and find a few vetran AP shooters , they can help a lot .

Chris

[jhurr]

"Now where can i go on the web to find out how to fit the gun to my hand .."

Unless you are a ten thumbed mutant, or bought a grip which is wildly the wrong size, I would suggest not doing anything radical right away.
The factory grip should be OK for 95% of the population, and is adjustable anyway.

If you mean how to place the gun in your hand then I think the AMU manual covers it.

Apologies to any ten thumbed mutants out there.

[Cheng]

thanks guys. I will look for the target shooting Canada site and bookmark it.

Cheng

[Nicole Hamilton]

Unless you are a ten thumbed mutant, or bought a grip which is wildly the wrong size, I would suggest not doing anything radical right away.
The factory grip should be OK for 95% of the population, and is adjustable anyway.

I agree. Obviously, a grip that fits perfectly is better than one that doesn't, so it's understandable that some folks will immediately go for the Dremel and putty whenever they get a new gun, just to get that extra edge. But there are some reasons not to do that.

1. Resale instantly plummets because a modified grip instantly turns off a lot of buyers.

2. Just my opinion, but I think most modified grips look ugly as hell. For me, a lot of the pleasure of owning and shooting a really fine gun is that they are just really pretty works of art. Start modifying and, well, so much for the pretty part.

3. You have to know what you're doing or at least think you do. From what I've seen of the cosmetics of most results, I think there are more of the latter than of the former.

4. Really fine guns come right from the factory with really fine grips, with adjustable shelves and in a range of sizes. That's part of what you pay for! If the one you got with the gun isn't right for you, maybe you just need a different size, not a Dremel tool.

5. Having the perfectly-fitted grip is never, never, never going to be as important as any of the fundamentals, but especially, natural point of aim (!), sight alignment, trigger squeeze and follow-through. I'd love to know how much people think they improve their scores by modifying their grips, but I'd be surprised if it's even 5 points out of 300. If you're a top competitor, a consistent 5 point improvement is huge; for the rest of us, consider 1, 2, 3 and 4, above.

[Fred Mannis]

Nicole, I do not often disagree with your comments, but in this case....

1. Resale instantly plummets because a modified grip instantly turns off a lot of buyers.

Shouldn't base a buying decision on resale value. Maybe a tie breaking feature

2. Just my opinion, but I think most modified grips look ugly as hell. For me, a lot of the pleasure of owning and shooting a really fine gun is that they are just really pretty works of art. Start modifying and, well, so much for the pretty part.

It's nice to have a pretty gun, but it's more important to have a gun that lets you shoot your best. Shotgunners always seem to be talking about their engraving and quality of the wood.

3. You have to know what you're doing or at least think you do. From what I've seen of the cosmetics of most results, I think there are more of the latter than of the former.

Cosmetics of a modified grip has nothing to do with its functionality.

4. Really fine guns come right from the factory with really fine grips, with adjustable shelves and in a range of sizes. That's part of what you pay for! If the one you got with the gun isn't right for you, maybe you just need a different size, not a Dremel tool.

Maybe, but I have heard many shooters, on this site, say things like - XYZ is a fine pistol, but I didn't like the fit of the grips, so I bought ABC pistol. I recently told a dealer to keep the stock Pardini grips and ordered Rink


5. Having the perfectly-fitted grip is never, never, never going to be as important as any of the fundamentals, but especially, natural point of aim (!), sight alignment, trigger squeeze and follow-through. I'd love to know how much people think they improve their scores by modifying their grips, but I'd be surprised if it's even 5 points out of 300. If you're a top competitor, a consistent 5 point improvement is huge; for the rest of us, consider 1, 2, 3 and 4, above.

True, but NPA, sight alignment, trigger action, etc are things we work on all the time. Custom fitting a grip is something you do once, takes maybe a day, and needn't take time away from mastering the fundamentals.

Having said all that, I agree that Mr Cheng ought to spend the next year mastering the fundamentals, and then perhaps he will have a better idea of what, if anything, needs to be modified on the excellent grips that came with his Steyr LP50

[Nicole Hamilton]

Nicole, I do not often disagree with your comments, but in this case....

It doesn't sound like you disagree with my comments, it sounds like the considerations I mentioned just aren't as important to you as getting that perfect grip. I'm totally okay with that. We all have to decide for ourselves what's important to make us happy.

But you're a very experienced, very good shooter, so I was gratified to see that even though you do modify your own grips, you don't recommend that for someone just getting started.

On the whole, I thought you offered a sensible alternative point of view.

[Fred Mannis]

Cheng,
There are some adustments you can make to your grips without ruining their good looks. :-)

Read the manual on how to change the grip rake and yaw. Then take your stance, bring the gun up, and see whether the sights are aligned. If your grip is right, the sights should come up perfectly aligned. If not, change the way you grip the gun and/or use the grip angle adjustment screws until you can. With a few hundred hours of practice, you should be able to take your stance, grip your pistol, close your eyes, bring the gun up, open your eyes and find the perfectly aligned sights pointing at the bull.

Shoot well!
Fred

[Guest]

[quote="Nicole Hamilton"][quote="jhurr"]
1. Resale instantly plummets because a modified grip instantly turns off a lot of buyers.

Simple solution, purchase a used grip to fit your pistol (any condition).
Put the new one away, then fill and sand the used grip all you want.

[Cheng]

Sorry everyone. I meant to ask how to hold the pistol correctly??? I think Fred has given me the answer i was looking for. The grip fits my hand like a glove! I am a med rt. I had to lower the "shelf?" about 5 mm to allow room for my pinky but that was all. I would never modify any of my equipment myself. I wanted to know how to hold the pistol and aim at the target. I have not made any other changes than the above. When i look through the rear sights to the front I get about a 1:1:1 ratio of sights to light BUT i have to bend my wrist so far forward. Imagine i have a fist around my grip, my fingers are pointing at a 45 degree angle to the ground. Is this correct?? Is there a picture somewhere??? i have started reading the army manual and hope it is somehwere in there. That Canadian website is awesome! your tips are great! Thanks.

Cheng

[Fred Mannis]

Sorry everyone. I meant to ask how to hold the pistol correctly??? I think Fred has given me the answer i was looking for. The grip fits my hand like a glove! I am a med rt. I had to lower the "shelf?" about 5 mm to allow room for my pinky but that was all. I would never modify any of my equipment myself. I wanted to know how to hold the pistol and aim at the target. I have not made any other changes than the above. When i look through the rear sights to the front I get about a 1:1:1 ratio of sights to light BUT i have to bend my wrist so far forward. Imagine i have a fist around my grip, my fingers are pointing at a 45 degree angle to the ground. Is this correct?? Is there a picture somewhere??? i have started reading the army manual and hope it is somehwere in there. That Canadian website is awesome! your tips are great! Thanks.

Cheng

There is a great deal of material on this website as well. For this topic I suggest you read Ed Hall's Art of Pistol Shooting , part 1 http://www.pilkguns.com/coach/eh01.htm. There is very detailed info and pictures in A.A. Yur'yev's book "Competitive Shooting"

Sounds like you need to use the grip adjustment screws (see p37 of yr manual) to raise the rear of the gun. This will decrease the amount you have to bend your wrist. Remember that these grips are designed so that your wrist will be bent more than, say, holding a Colt 1911 pistol. The advantage is that you can more easily lock your wrist. Downside is that you cannot grip the pistol as firmly, but there is no need to with an AP.

The only other adjustment I would suggest at this point is to set the trigger position so that the ball of your index finger rests comfortably on the trigger and the finger tip is at 90 degrees to the trigger when you have taken up the trigger slack.

[Guest]

I think some of the best articles for me as beginner are here

http://www.pilkguns.com/c9.htm and the rest of the hitchhikers guides for shooting