Used free pistol question

[TomAmlie]

Well, it's time to take the plunge and spend some $ on a used free pistol. I'm sure this has been asked before, but does anyone have anything especially positive or negative to say about the following:
1. Pardini k50
2. Morini CM80
3. Toz35 (from our host Pilkguns)

I've found a good deal written about the TOZ, almost all positive, and just by reputation I'd be comfortable sending $ to Mr. Pilkington. However, it's the most expensive of the 3 I'm considering by about $200-$300. Any input on the cost/benefit trade-off?

I doubt I'll ever be much more than a dabbler in the sport...competing for fun, not with the expectation of being world class. I used to shoot a lot of 3 position smallbore, and now shoot a lot of air pistol and high power. I've enjoyed the air pistol immensely, and now that it's warming up want to move outside and try something new.

Thanks,
Tom

[GaryBF]

Tom,
There is a very good discussion of free pistols on page 2 of this forum. Member Nicole Hamilton provides an excellent description of the Pardini K22. As a new member you may not be aware, but you can do a search of the forum for topics of interest such as free pistols. You can also search by author.

[GaryBF]

Tom,
There is a very good discussion of free pistols on page 2 of this forum. Member Nicole Hamilton provides an excellent description of the Pardini K22. As a new member you may not be aware, but you can do a search of the forum for topics of interest such as free pistols. You can also search by author.

[VAshooter]

Tom,
If you are shooting for fun you really need a good quality free pistol. Don't short change yourself because you don't expect to make the big team. Shooting a free pistol is hard enough, it's impossible if you are working around the deficiencies of the weapon.
You will enjoy the experience every time you shoot a quality pistol and thats what it's all about.

Shoot well.

Doug in Virginia

[Mike M.]

I'd advise the Toz-35 for two reasons.

First, it's a highly competitive gun. The Morini CM-84 is starting to edge the Toz out, but you can show up on the line at an Olympic Games with a Toz-35 and nobody will raise an eyebrow. After all, the current world record was set with one.

Second, you can get spares. The Pardini and Morini CM-80 are more or less orphans.

[dnovo]

The TOZ may be the best and cheapest solution, but I am not sure why you say the "Pardini is an orphan" as far as parts or support. When Don Nygord died, Pardini here in the US was in limbo only until Larry's Guns picked up the distributorship. I don't know about parts for the older free pistol, but Larry has a good supply for the current Pardini line, I have had dealings with Pardini and find them VERY responsive, and I am having an great time with my Pardini K-22 free pistol. (Although I admit that I am kinda a sucker for all free pistols, owning one of the now-extinct and odd-looking, but great shooting Steyr free pistols.)

I'd give Larry a call before crossing an older Pardini off my list. He is a straightforward guy and will let you know what is, and is not, available in parts. Ditto if you want to buy an older Hammerli free pistol. Larry usually has parts or sources for those as well. Dave

P.S. Free pistols are an art form. I happened to run across Mr. Morini's free pistol built by SAM after he joined up with them. See these photos:
http://www.gm-competitionarms.com/sam_fp50.htm

Sigh, yet another gem we can't buy here in the US.

[dam8]

I happened to be in the market for a free pistol, when Pilkingtons had a 150 Hammerli for sale. In it's hay day it was one of the best. If you keep your eyes open, every now and then they'll show up. I couldn't be happier with mine. Maybe not as forgiving as the toz, butvery nice to shoot.

[TomAmlie]

I really appreciate any information I can get.

I'd seen peoples' comments on the curent Morini CM84 and the Pardini K22, but didn't think it would be entirely appropriate to generalize from these current models to the older models I was considering.

I just finished my taxes and I think I'll have to wait a few weeks before spending any sum of $ (what I thought was going to be a sizeable refund went the other way). I guess that'll give me a chance to ponder some more.

Aside from Pilkguns and Larry's does anyone know of a shop that would be likely to have this sort of thing used? If not, what would be a reasonable search avenue? Commercial row at Camp Perry (if I can make it this year, which is unlikely)? Big local gun shows? I live in a relatively rural area, and there's no one I know who shoots FP.

Thanks again.

Tom

[Mike M.]

I'd check the auction sites. Gunbroker.com, auctionarms.com, and gunsamerica.com. Also, I'd put an ad post on this site.

You just won't find anything at gun shows these days.

[Fred Mannis]

Aside from Pilkguns and Larry's does anyone know of a shop that would be likely to have this sort of thing used? If not, what would be a reasonable search avenue? Commercial row at Camp Perry (if I can make it this year, which is unlikely)? Big local gun shows? I live in a relatively rural area, and there's no one I know who shoots FP.

Neal Johnson has two used FP for sale. See http://www.nealjguns.com/ss_store/UsedTgtPistol.html
Potter Firearms also has some used FP, and you might talk to International Shooters Service

[K38]

I have a TOZ and a CM80. I like the CM80, but I agree it is probably an orphan. I did not pay much for it, and I like it very much. I have heard from others that have one and like it. I don't think you would see it at a big match. I think it was one of Morini's first commercial efforts, and it was pretty ambitious. Mine broke a spring, but I had one in the kit of spares that came with the gun and I didn't have much trouble fixing it.

Best,

Dwight

[dhurt]

Most of the older free pistols are still pretty good shooting guns. I have an older Pardini PGP 75 that I like rather well, and I can't decide if I like my Morini 84E any better, at least as far as scores go. I guess the spare parts question can be valid, but if you can find a good used pistol at a good price, you can get started right away.

K38, can you comment on what you paid for the older Morini CM 80? Thanks, Dwaine.

[K38]

Dwaine,

I think I remember paying about $400.00 for my CM80. It had it's original case, manual, test target, spare parts, and several front sight options. The test target was signed by C. Morini himself, I think it was a pretty small operation.


Dwight

[dnovo]

Neal Johnson has two used FP for sale. See http://www.nealjguns.com/ss_store/UsedTgtPistol.html
Potter Firearms also has some used FP, and you might talk to International Shooters Service

Actually, the Steyr FP isn't there anymore. I bought it. And one heck of a bargin, can't believe it sat there that long, and only $75 more than the TOZ he had on the same list.

So much for 'word of mouth.' The Steyr looked 'odd' and suffered from lack of dealers on this side of 'the Pond.' As a result of a raft of misinformation by those who haven't seen, let alone shot this superb gun, and unjustly 'trashed' it, I got the gun in the original box, a pair of extra grips, full kit of spares, etc. at a low price. As accurate as my K-22 or my older Hammeli, and the loading, cocking, and general ergos are excellent. Quality and 'fit and finish?' Typcial Steyr, which is to say, outstanding. Dave

[Fred Mannis]

Actually, the Steyr FP isn't there anymore. I bought it. And one heck of a bargin, can't believe it sat there that long, and only $75 more than the TOZ he had on the same list.

I saw it in his shop in Nov and was really tempted. Friend of mine shoots one in our winter FP league and, yes, it is an excellent pistol. Enjoy!
Fred

[Trident]

I have a Morini CM-80 with a Super Comp kit that I love. This gun in particular was owned by a previous collegiate shooter that used it successfully at collegiate nationals. ISS in Ft. Worth still has parts for this gun, and I have used this pistol for the last 8 years. Before that I used a Hammerli 152 which was really heavy and had a very unreliable electronic trigger. Our collegiate pistol team had 4 CM-80's one had a Super Comp kit. The plexiglass sights really make a difference and the grips were outstanding.

I think we were the only collegiate team that used those, but we always did real well with them. The only complaint was the side lever screw in the frame tended to wear. Other than that they were very sturdy guns if you took care of them. I still have the original aluminum case that for the gun when it was made in Switzerland.

[Fred]

Trident,

I wonder if you would explain more fully the difference(es) between the regular CM80 and the Super Comp version? I have never seen this described, and plexiglass sights do sound very interesting!

Thanks,
FredB

[Guest]

You can get parts for the toz, if it breaks . The M-80 will break at the cocking lever/ frame. It vibrates when it fires. The plexiglass front sight is not legal now. If you buy the toz and don't like it you can get you money back, they don't go down in value, currently they are going up. The difference in the the three guns are, one is gold the (TOZ), the others are dead lead .

[F. Paul in Denver]

Guest - can you describe the "plexiglass" front sight and tell us why it is illegal?? I'm not at all familiar with M80 at all.

Thanks

[Mike T.]

In defense of the CM80, I must say in all the years I owned and shot one, nothing on it broke. The mechanical trigger was a delight. I found it better than the one on my Toz. There was a vibration upon firing but that was the sliding weight and its cantilevered support rod which lies below the barrel.
The grip is adjustable in rake - a nice feature. I was surprised and disappointed to find that neither Rink, nor Nill, makes a grip for the CM80. I was even more surprised to learn that Morini itself does not offer a grip for the gun.
I used the post and notch metal sights, which I liked so much that I never tried the acrylic sights (Plexiglas). I am puzzled, though as to why "guest" would write: "The plexiglass front sight is not legal now."
Rule 8.4.2.3 states:
"Only open sights are allowed. Optical, mirror, telescope, laserbeam,
electronically projected dot sights etc., are prohibited. ..... No protective covering is permitted on front or rear open sights."
The Plexiglas sights that came with my used CM80 were merely a collection of rectangles of clear acrylic upon which had been painted, in black, a sight post. The collection provided a selection of widths for the post. I don't see how these sight elements would run afoul of Rule 8.4.2.3.
Now, as I said, I bought the gun used. Perhaps originally the gun was supplied with another type of Plexiglas sight that did not meet the rule?
Can anyone enlighten me on this?
Mike T.