I have been shooting my Pardini SP1 rapid fire gun with a Rink grip every day for about 2 months. I have noticed that the grip no longer has the same amount of "bite" in my hand, i.e. the gun feels like it could slip in my hand. I think I have worn down the sharp stippling edges down on the grip.
My question is what ways can I increase the friction surface of the grip? A grip that feels like 40-80 grit sandpaper would be nice.
I bought a kit from Champions Choice that was basically instant glue and iron filings. It actually worked nice on my IZH-35m. But are there any other ideas out there? Any spray-on sticky stuff?
Thank You,
Jeff
How to roughen up grip surface?
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Lanning R. Hochhauser
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:45 am
- Location: Illinois
How to roughen up grip surface?
I purchased a Vitarbo grip for my Pardini k2 some time ago. I got it oversized and finished it myself. To stipple it I used a Sears engraving tool. The engraver I have has an adjustable speed setting and you can replace the tips as well. Adjusting the speed helps to control the depth of the stipple. I experimented on wood of about the same hardness as the walnut grip and was able to make the grip look like it came from the "factory."
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Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
Sticky Grips
Rob, can you direct me to that section of the rules?RobStubbs wrote: beware of falling foul of the rules if you make the grip sticky.
Rob.
Thanks,
Fred
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Guest
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
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- Location: Ruislip, UK
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
I think I got myself there as well. I was advised against using blu tac since it was sticky as a temporary grip modification. As has been mentioned though there is nothing in the ISSF rules which dictates grip surface (well not this month anyway ;-) )David Levene wrote:You've got me on that one Rob. Which rule?RobStubbs wrote:You can buy stuff but beware of falling foul of the rules if you make the grip sticky.
I can only think of grip rules concerning size and shape, nothing about surface texture.
Rob.
I must have posted this before but can not remember….
Apply adhesive to the grip surface and then sprinkle over the glued surface whilst wet some grip that is used for polishing stones or used to make sandpaper, something like 180 grit. This needs to dry over night, don’t be tempted to touch the surface! Once dry, use a modelling spray, mat black is good and apply a thin coat over the surface and allow to dry. This produces a durable non-slip surface. I use craft 3M aerosol spray glue, I am sure the are local equivalents, don’t over spray the glue so that it will run. Apply adhesive tape to the parts that you don’t want to apply the finish / colour. Don’t worry if on the first few shoots, some grip comes off, this is quite normal. You may need to experiment with how coarse the grit is for different areas of the grip.
This finish is excellent if you have used Morini/Hammerli (or should I say Walther) paste as stippling tools are great for wood but when the is little tree left, the above option is good.
Apply adhesive to the grip surface and then sprinkle over the glued surface whilst wet some grip that is used for polishing stones or used to make sandpaper, something like 180 grit. This needs to dry over night, don’t be tempted to touch the surface! Once dry, use a modelling spray, mat black is good and apply a thin coat over the surface and allow to dry. This produces a durable non-slip surface. I use craft 3M aerosol spray glue, I am sure the are local equivalents, don’t over spray the glue so that it will run. Apply adhesive tape to the parts that you don’t want to apply the finish / colour. Don’t worry if on the first few shoots, some grip comes off, this is quite normal. You may need to experiment with how coarse the grit is for different areas of the grip.
This finish is excellent if you have used Morini/Hammerli (or should I say Walther) paste as stippling tools are great for wood but when the is little tree left, the above option is good.
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F. Paul in Denver
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utemarksman
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:10 pm
- Location: Utah County, UT
- Contact:
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F. Paul in Denver
I'd love to Hyrum except the guy who did my grips is unavailable right now. As soon as he gets back, I intend to post it right here along with a photo.
For the rest of you readers out there, Hyrum is referring to something I had done to the grips on both my Pardini SP and HP and a Hammerli 208.
I began by taking a product called Quickwood available at Home Depot and applied it to the grips. I then worked the putty to create just the right grip including finger grooves on the front strap. I let the stuff dry and then took a Dremel tool to all the surplusage areas. I then measured and Dremeled the grips some more until they conformed to ISSF rules.
I highly recommend using Quickwood because it is nice and pliable making it very easy to work with. In fact, it is so pliable that when I was done, I could actually see the traces of my palm print in the dried putty. I kid you not that if you take enough time, you can get the putty to conform to every crease and crevice in your shooting hand.
Before I had the final non stick mystery coating put on, I tried the gun out for a couple of weeks. Since I'm a cross dominant shooter, I needed to make some very minor follow up adjustments vis-a-vis the Dremel. When I was finished, I found that the gun oriented itself beautifully when I picked it up. During this trial period, I used the "sticky rag" I mentioned earlier to give me plenty of traction on the rather smooth surface of the Quickwood.
I found that taking lots of time to mold the grips really makes a uniform grip so much easier to attain because if you dont grip the gun the same way each time, you will FEEL the difference. Any inconsistency in your grip will instantly feel unnatural and uncomfortable.
NOTE: Before using the Quickwood which is pretty permanent, I experimented with Play Dough just to get an idea of how I wanted to shape the grips when I moved to the permanent stuff. This was necessary because I knew I would only have 15-20 minutes with the Quickwood before it set. Only after I felt I had shaped and reshaped the Play Dough several times around the original grip did I get a good idea of how I wanted to shape the Quickwood material. Once done, I put away the Play Dough and started the job in earnest.
Of course if you are perfectly satisfied with the way your grips are right now, you can skip all this stuff. But before you do, I would at least experiment with Play Dough to give you an idea of the possibilities. It's cheap, wont hurt your gun or the grips and peels off in a flash. You may be very surprised at how much improvement you can make with minimal effort and some thought.
Once I was satisified with the way the grips fit, I gave the grips to my buddy who applied a very thin layer of epoxy of some kind and then sprinkled this "mystery stuff" over the still sticky epoxy. When done, the result was a rock solid grip perfectly shaped to my hand. I am extremely pleased with the results. He charged me $30 for the job which was finished in just 72 hours.
I think the "stuff" he used is called silica carbide or something like that. You cant find it in hardware stores - only in gem and rock shops. The feel is very uniform and akin to light to medium sandpaper and it's a dark gray in color. Somebody out there probably has heard of it before.
I have spoken with and seen the work of a few highly respected custom grip makers including a fellow Italian at the Morini factory in Switzerland during my visit there last year. I think my grips are every bit as good as any these great craftsman could create for me.
In fairness, I think their talent lies in their ability to shape the perfect grip for someone else. That's a heck of alot more difficult than molding a grip for yourself because you will know when you have achieved the grip that feels just right for you.
Photos and a description of the finishing material to follow.
Tens and X's to all
F. Paul in Denver
For the rest of you readers out there, Hyrum is referring to something I had done to the grips on both my Pardini SP and HP and a Hammerli 208.
I began by taking a product called Quickwood available at Home Depot and applied it to the grips. I then worked the putty to create just the right grip including finger grooves on the front strap. I let the stuff dry and then took a Dremel tool to all the surplusage areas. I then measured and Dremeled the grips some more until they conformed to ISSF rules.
I highly recommend using Quickwood because it is nice and pliable making it very easy to work with. In fact, it is so pliable that when I was done, I could actually see the traces of my palm print in the dried putty. I kid you not that if you take enough time, you can get the putty to conform to every crease and crevice in your shooting hand.
Before I had the final non stick mystery coating put on, I tried the gun out for a couple of weeks. Since I'm a cross dominant shooter, I needed to make some very minor follow up adjustments vis-a-vis the Dremel. When I was finished, I found that the gun oriented itself beautifully when I picked it up. During this trial period, I used the "sticky rag" I mentioned earlier to give me plenty of traction on the rather smooth surface of the Quickwood.
I found that taking lots of time to mold the grips really makes a uniform grip so much easier to attain because if you dont grip the gun the same way each time, you will FEEL the difference. Any inconsistency in your grip will instantly feel unnatural and uncomfortable.
NOTE: Before using the Quickwood which is pretty permanent, I experimented with Play Dough just to get an idea of how I wanted to shape the grips when I moved to the permanent stuff. This was necessary because I knew I would only have 15-20 minutes with the Quickwood before it set. Only after I felt I had shaped and reshaped the Play Dough several times around the original grip did I get a good idea of how I wanted to shape the Quickwood material. Once done, I put away the Play Dough and started the job in earnest.
Of course if you are perfectly satisfied with the way your grips are right now, you can skip all this stuff. But before you do, I would at least experiment with Play Dough to give you an idea of the possibilities. It's cheap, wont hurt your gun or the grips and peels off in a flash. You may be very surprised at how much improvement you can make with minimal effort and some thought.
Once I was satisified with the way the grips fit, I gave the grips to my buddy who applied a very thin layer of epoxy of some kind and then sprinkled this "mystery stuff" over the still sticky epoxy. When done, the result was a rock solid grip perfectly shaped to my hand. I am extremely pleased with the results. He charged me $30 for the job which was finished in just 72 hours.
I think the "stuff" he used is called silica carbide or something like that. You cant find it in hardware stores - only in gem and rock shops. The feel is very uniform and akin to light to medium sandpaper and it's a dark gray in color. Somebody out there probably has heard of it before.
I have spoken with and seen the work of a few highly respected custom grip makers including a fellow Italian at the Morini factory in Switzerland during my visit there last year. I think my grips are every bit as good as any these great craftsman could create for me.
In fairness, I think their talent lies in their ability to shape the perfect grip for someone else. That's a heck of alot more difficult than molding a grip for yourself because you will know when you have achieved the grip that feels just right for you.
Photos and a description of the finishing material to follow.
Tens and X's to all
F. Paul in Denver
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Fred
but first....
Lots of good ideas here, but is the cart before the horse? F. Paul wrote about it, but it's a question of emphasis. I have worked on a lot of grips for myself, and what seems to be the most important thing has turned out to be this: I make sure to modify the grip so that it feels right and does not slip AT ALL in my hand, BEFORE dealing with the surface texture.
I believe it's a big mistake to depend on the properties of the surface texture to keep the grip from slipping around. No matter what surface treatment it is, it will feel different under different conditions, e.g. heat, cold, sweat, etc. If the fundamental geometry of the grip is correct for your hand, you won't be affected by the differences in surface texture feel. If the fundamental geometry is wrong, sometimes your grip will slip around and sometimes it won't.
Therefore, when I am working on a grip and testing it out, I LIKE the surface to be smooth, so I can tell if the basic geometry is correct for my hand. Only after I have satisfied myself about that, do I treat the surface (usually by stippling). If I've done the job right, the stippled grip doesn't even feel that different from how it felt smooth.
Just my opinion,
FredB
I believe it's a big mistake to depend on the properties of the surface texture to keep the grip from slipping around. No matter what surface treatment it is, it will feel different under different conditions, e.g. heat, cold, sweat, etc. If the fundamental geometry of the grip is correct for your hand, you won't be affected by the differences in surface texture feel. If the fundamental geometry is wrong, sometimes your grip will slip around and sometimes it won't.
Therefore, when I am working on a grip and testing it out, I LIKE the surface to be smooth, so I can tell if the basic geometry is correct for my hand. Only after I have satisfied myself about that, do I treat the surface (usually by stippling). If I've done the job right, the stippled grip doesn't even feel that different from how it felt smooth.
Just my opinion,
FredB
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F. Paul in Denver
Gang,
The stuff is called silicon carbide and is available in lapidary shops and comes in various grit sizes. We used a fine/medium. The epoxy to use is one with a quick (7-10 minute) dry time.
I also agree with FredB's comments about not depending upon the grip surface to provide you with a stable grip. The time you spend forming the grip itself should yield a platform that has plenty of stability.
However, I prefer the rough feel that the silicon carbide provides - it just gives me an added feeling of security especially when my hand gets a little sweaty. Less importantly but worth mentioning, if you have a gun worth several hundreds of dollars, you may also want a grip that looks every bit as attractive. The surface treatment is a big improvement over the putty alone.
I'll try to post a photo in the next couple of days for anyone who is interested.
F. Paul in Denver
The stuff is called silicon carbide and is available in lapidary shops and comes in various grit sizes. We used a fine/medium. The epoxy to use is one with a quick (7-10 minute) dry time.
I also agree with FredB's comments about not depending upon the grip surface to provide you with a stable grip. The time you spend forming the grip itself should yield a platform that has plenty of stability.
However, I prefer the rough feel that the silicon carbide provides - it just gives me an added feeling of security especially when my hand gets a little sweaty. Less importantly but worth mentioning, if you have a gun worth several hundreds of dollars, you may also want a grip that looks every bit as attractive. The surface treatment is a big improvement over the putty alone.
I'll try to post a photo in the next couple of days for anyone who is interested.
F. Paul in Denver
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James Hurr
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:03 am
- Location: Australia
Grip
I agree with Fred.
If you need a very grippy surface then there is something fundamentally not right with your grip.
A smooth grip should work fine, if it doesn't you have work to do.
Having said that I texture my grips lightly with a fine point on a dremel.
I would be interested to know how FAS and Pardini get their honeycomb effect.
If you need a very grippy surface then there is something fundamentally not right with your grip.
A smooth grip should work fine, if it doesn't you have work to do.
Having said that I texture my grips lightly with a fine point on a dremel.
I would be interested to know how FAS and Pardini get their honeycomb effect.
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Guest
Grip surface
While I agree with the idea that the grip must fit you well, I am referring to Rapid Fire pistol, where you have to hold the gun solid as a rock. Even a slight movement is detrimental. No time to get back on target. Not a slow fire grip like AP or FP.
Clearly, additional support is commonly used where the rules allow, such as free pistol grips or the old rapid fire wrap around grips. And those guns don't move nearly as much as a new rapid fire gun. To say that there is something inherently wrong with my existing grip (standard pistol/rapid fire type grip) because of the need for a rough grip surface I believe is incorrect. The idea is not to replace a poor grip, but to supplement a good grip.
Also, it is more noticeable for me, as I routinely fire 400-800 rounds in a practice session in an effort to build grip strength. My IZH-35 with a sandpaper-like finish is much easier to hold.
Jeff
Clearly, additional support is commonly used where the rules allow, such as free pistol grips or the old rapid fire wrap around grips. And those guns don't move nearly as much as a new rapid fire gun. To say that there is something inherently wrong with my existing grip (standard pistol/rapid fire type grip) because of the need for a rough grip surface I believe is incorrect. The idea is not to replace a poor grip, but to supplement a good grip.
Also, it is more noticeable for me, as I routinely fire 400-800 rounds in a practice session in an effort to build grip strength. My IZH-35 with a sandpaper-like finish is much easier to hold.
Jeff