It still is heavy... What gives?

[jlochey]

Gang,

I shoot an IZZY 46m and really like it. I've been shooting it for about 6 months.

I still find it kind of heavy though. Specifically in the front.

Now, I lift weights hard 4x a week and am not exactly wimpy. In fact, I'm fairly strong. I'm 38 years old, just for the record.

But I tell you, that gun quivers a bit sometimes, after about 30-40 shots.

Now, my scores are improving, which makes me happy, but stability is still lacking a bit.

I was thinking of a lighter gun, or maybe some specific exercises?

Thoughts?


All advice is appreciated.



John

[Dan]

Strange. The only reason i can think of is that you are holding insanely long before releasing the shot? BTW "lifting weights" by itself is too general to know wether you are working out the particular muscles that are challenged in shooting. One excercise i was told is to attach a weight to a stick with a 4 ft thread, then grab the stick hold it in front of you and rotate it until you lifted the weight. That strengthens both the shoulder and the wrist.

[RobStubbs]

What is the actual weight of the gun ? You should train every now and again up to say 100+ shots so as to be happy to shoot a 60 shot match. Also how long do you hold for and do you hold it really tight ? If you either hold very hard or very long then that will detract from the long term stability and tire you quicker. Also what breaks do you have in a 60 shot match ? If you tire after 30-40 then shoot 20 and rest for 5-10 mins and start again.

Rob.

[Fred]

All of the above is very good general advice, but the fact remains that the IZH 46/46M is a nose-heavy gun. I have a 46 and like it next best to my Steyr, but I do find the nose-heavy balance a negative. What I found out recently is that proper grip fit seems to be even more important for the 46 than for other, better balanced guns. You want the grip adjusted so that you are feeling most of that out-front weight at the rear-most part of your hand, rather than at your fingers. In other words, the fingers act as the pivot point of a lever system balancing two weights. I may not be expressing the concept very well, but I can definitely feel it. If you haven't looked to fitting your grip well, doing so might help a lot.

HTH
FredB

[Don90250]

You want the grip adjusted so that you are feeling most of that out-front weight at the rear-most part of your hand, rather than at your fingers. In other words, the fingers act as the pivot point of a lever system balancing two weights.
HTH
FredB

Fred, that's what I discovered by accident. The way I'd describe it is to make the palm rest really snug at the rear so it supports the weight of the IZH. I can relax my fingers from the grip and still support the weight.

[James Hurr]

How long do you hold in the aim for before releasing the shot? Most people wait too long.

The type of weight training will affect the balance of muscle type you develop, which will effect your performance in power or endurance events.

[jlochey]

There is a chance I hold too long. How long is optimum?

[Fred Mannis]

There is a chance I hold too long. How long is optimum?

From the time at which you settle into the aim area, most of us shoot within 3-8 seconds. Take a look at the AMU manual http://www.bullseyepistol.com/chapter1.htm

[RobStubbs]

As above between 3 and 8 seconds is OK, ideally 3-5. Another thought is that you should not shoot the same day as you weight train (or not after doing weights) - ideally have a 2 day gap as well.

Rob.

[Jim Harrison]

If you are doing a lot of weights and quite a lot of shooting, you might just be suffering from tendonitis, also known as tennis elbow or shooter's elbow. This is not always particularly painful, especially if you are used to some aches and pains from the weight training. It can give you sudden wobbles.

If this is the problem, the remedy seems to be to avoid gripping anything hard for a while, and find a good physio or sports masseur who can manipulate your arm muscles to get rid of the lactic acid crystals which cause the trouble.

[MSC]

I've lifted weights since my teenage years (I'm 35) and have had various other sports-interests over the years. One overriding "true-ism" I've found is that you can't be a master of all trades (or sports in this case). Going at the weights hard 4x week means you're going to be sore a good number of days, hindering your shooting. Skeet shooting you might get by. But with a precision sport like air pistol, sore muscles will be detrimental to your scores. Just pick a muscle group and I'm sure it can be tied to where it can break down shooting form.

When my interest in air pistol grew, I cut back to 2 days of weight training a week, more of a full-body workout each time. I added a front-raise exercise to the end of my workout - simply raising a 5lb plate from my side up to shooting level and holding there for 5sec. Repeating this an increasing # of times each workout. Made a noticeable difference in my hold, as I have a front-heavy pistol too. The "wrist roller" mentioned above would be a good one too.

BTW, the anatomical grips do a great deal to transfer the weight of the gun to the palm. Makes a gun feel much lighter, as I believe was mentioned above.

[James Hurr]

simply raising a 5lb plate from my side up to shooting level and holding there for 5sec.

For reasons I can't remember I think its generally better to lift beyond the aiming point. Otherwise your arm learns a particular point and when tiring will drop below it. Its then very hard to bring it higher/back to the correct point.

Plus all ranges are not level, the targets aren't at exactly the same height etc.

Holding a weight still does not really do anything for you either. You won't find a machine or exercise in any gym where the objective is to hold a weight stationary. Force and motion seem to be required to build muscle, muscle tone, etc.

5lb sounds a little heavy to me.

Weight training and resulting performance are somewhat counterintuitive.

Heavy weights/few reps will build fast twitch = poor accuracy muscle. Handy if you're a sprinter but not a long distance runner/shooter.
Light weights/more reps will build slow twitch = better accuracy and endurance muscle which is more useful for shooting.

[jrmcdaniel]

BTW, the anatomical grips do a great deal to transfer the weight of the gun to the palm. Makes a gun feel much lighter, as I believe was mentioned above.

I recently shot a new IZH-46M and found the grip almost impossible. My current gun is a SAM M10 but I had a IZH-46 for a year or so which had some minimal grip work. The SAM has a custom grip.

I would strongly recommend getting out a circular rasp or buying custom grips for your IZH, too. Worst case for doing it yourself is that you take off too much wood -- any of the wood putty compounds will replace this "error" easily so no reason to not be agressive in customizing the grip. Resale value is not much of an issue for the IZH (and a bought custom grip will enhance the value somewhat). Some Minwax stain will make it look good when you are "done."

Best,

Joe

[Don90250a]

Someone in TargetTalk often says your grip is inside the wood you now have. In other words, the 46M grip needs work before it fits your hand. There are basically three options.

1) Buy a replacement grip. The only place I could find a replacement grip for the 46M is www.woodsandwateroutdoors.com. Steve Corcoran does an excellent job crafting a new grip to your hand.

2) Have someone customize your grip. Seaton Thomas also does an excellent job modifying your grip to your hand. You can reach him at seaton2@frontiernet.net.

3) Customize your grip yourself. Use the two articles at the late Don Nygord's site:

http://www.nygord-precision.com/grips.htm
http://www.nygord-precision.com/grips_b.html

I can personally vouch for both Steve and Seaton. I haven't tried doing my own customizing. Good luck and good shooting!

[GaryN]

The other thing to look at is are you pacing and resting?

I think you have 1hr-45min to shoot your 60 shots.

I was tired myself until I realized that I was shooting 60 shots in less than an hour. Shooting non-stop w/o resting.

What I was taught to do was to use almost ALL the time.

Break the time into say 4 "periods," kinda like in basketball, and add a rest period between them. So you have 4 shooting periods and 3 rest breaks between them. Then shoot 15 shots in each of the 4 periods, paced so that you finish the last shot of each period near the end of the period. The logic in this is that you pace yourself like a distance runner vs a sprinter, and you are not worn out before the end of the match.

I modify this slightly by adding a "buffer" period at the end, to accomodate problems that might happen during the match. That way my planned pace is not messed up.

gud luk
Gary