Olympics in London 2012

[Axel]

Nice city indeed. But arn't handguns banned in the UK? Will they be able to host olympic shooting competitions?

/Axel

[David Levene]

My guess is that they will be allowed under the same conditions as for the Commonwealth Games in 2002. Expect a temporary, high security, exemption for the OG competitors. Probably for 2 weeks before the games with the pistols to be out of the UK a few days after the closing ceremony.

[Mark Briggs]

And, if it's like the Commonwealth games, there'll be a high fence between the shooters and the crowd, to prevent one of those unruly Olympic shooters from throwing his multi-thousand-dollar target gun to a terrorist spectator so that spectator can empty the single shot pistol (or, heaven forbid, the 5-round magazine) into the crowd, killing thousands (or not).

I don't want to downplay the need for security, and especially not in the light of recent events in London, but the security efforts aimed at Commonwealth Games competitors was aimed at the wrong people. During the games a reporter went into downtown London and documented the ease with which one could buy an illegal handgun to be used for criminal purposes. So while the competitors precious competition handguns were in a lockup secured 24/7 by armed guards, anybody with half a brain and a few pounds sterling could go downtown and buy a pistol. And by the way, if you open your eyes you'll see that terrorists prefer implements of mass destruction, such as bombs. Guns, and in particular handguns, are too discriminating of their targets and just don't yield the same kind of "big bang" payoff that bombs do.

I live in a country where firearms contol has got out of hand. Any intelligent observer will note that ordinary Britains are actually in greater peril now that handgun ownership has been banned than before, and doubly so since the courts have ruled that citizens cannot use force to defend their homes or protect themselves. When will Britain and the rest of the world wake up and realize the nanny state can't protect all the people all the time? Responsible firearms ownership should be a vital part of any homeland security program - the US experience certainly proves the ownership of firearms as a deterrant to home invasions, a rapidly growing sport among the thugs of Britain.

I know these opinions will not be appreciated by some, so go ahead, flame on. But before you do, just think for a moment. When the nasty boys break into your house, kick down your bedroom door and start coming at you with their sharp knives intended to sever your jugular, which would you rather reach for, a pillow to cover your head, or...?

(And just so you know, in order for ME to stay on the right side of the law, I would never be able to defend my home with my firearms - I simply couldn't make it quickly enough through all the locked doors, padlocks, locked ammo safe, etc to be effective as a deterrant.)

[kelly]

We would like to attend. I believe that China and several other countries don't have handguns in the hands of ordinary people either. So appearently guns are not too dangerous during the olympics.

In light of the recent events in London perhaps timers will also need banning. Most rational people understand that no rules or laws can protect them from those intent on killing, only self protection works when the chips are down and for bombs and such only ridding the perpertrators from the country by all means necessary will do that.

Heart felt sympathy to the brits in this sad time. Hope it serves as a wake up call around the globe.

And, if it's like the Commonwealth games, there'll be a high fence between the shooters and the crowd, to prevent one of those unruly Olympic shooters from throwing his multi-thousand-dollar target gun to a terrorist spectator so that spectator can empty the single shot pistol (or, heaven forbid, the 5-round magazine) into the crowd, killing thousands (or not).

I don't want to downplay the need for security, and especially not in the light of recent events in London, but the security efforts aimed at Commonwealth Games competitors was aimed at the wrong people. During the games a reporter went into downtown London and documented the ease with which one could buy an illegal handgun to be used for criminal purposes. So while the competitors precious competition handguns were in a lockup secured 24/7 by armed guards, anybody with half a brain and a few pounds sterling could go downtown and buy a pistol. And by the way, if you open your eyes you'll see that terrorists prefer implements of mass destruction, such as bombs. Guns, and in particular handguns, are too discriminating of their targets and just don't yield the same kind of "big bang" payoff that bombs do.

I live in a country where firearms contol has got out of hand. Any intelligent observer will note that ordinary Britains are actually in greater peril now that handgun ownership has been banned than before, and doubly so since the courts have ruled that citizens cannot use force to defend their homes or protect themselves. When will Britain and the rest of the world wake up and realize the nanny state can't protect all the people all the time? Responsible firearms ownership should be a vital part of any homeland security program - the US experience certainly proves the ownership of firearms as a deterrant to home invasions, a rapidly growing sport among the thugs of Britain.

I know these opinions will not be appreciated by some, so go ahead, flame on. But before you do, just think for a moment. When the nasty boys break into your house, kick down your bedroom door and start coming at you with their sharp knives intended to sever your jugular, which would you rather reach for, a pillow to cover your head, or...?

(And just so you know, in order for ME to stay on the right side of the law, I would never be able to defend my home with my firearms - I simply couldn't make it quickly enough through all the locked doors, padlocks, locked ammo safe, etc to be effective as a deterrant.)

[pip]

FYI - the ban on hand guns has nothing to do with "terrorists" - at least not in the sense referred to above. It was prompted by two rampaging arseholes who respectively shot up of Hungerford and, more seriously, a school full of children in Dunblane.

And as a counterpoint I should point out that similar incedents in the US occured 'despite' (some would argue because) of more relaxed gun laws allowing 'self-protection'.

BTW - I am an avid target shooter AND hunter and fully support the gun control laws in the UK. I only want to see guns in responsible hands. As for buying guns in London I would urge you to consider the gulf between the drunk at the bar saying he will sell you a luger / browning / etc and the reality of actually getting one. Lived in Brixton for large part of my life : these scam merchants will probably also sell you london bridge if you ask.

However, the spirit and implicit problems with the original post are important to discuss - presumably shooting will be at the Bisely range?

[Spencer C]

However, the spirit and implicit problems with the original post are important to discuss - presumably shooting will be at the Bisely range?

Royal artillery school - woolwich

[David Levene]

Royal artillery school - woolwich

That's what was in the bid document but I don't see how they are going to leave a temporary range there for a year (World Cup in 2011).

It wouldn't suprise me (without any definite inside knowledge) if we will again be offering The British Pistol Club at Bisley as a haven for team members to "chill out".

[john bickar]

And as a counterpoint I should point out that similar incedents in the US occured 'despite' (some would argue because) of more relaxed gun laws allowing 'self-protection'.

That's a specious claim at best, for most of the "similar incidents" to which I assume you're referring that have occurred in the United States have occurred in places where 2nd Amendment rights were severely restricted. Without knowing which specific incidents you're referencing, I can say that the majority of well-publicized US firearm tragedies were committed by individuals who obtained firearms by illegitimate means, and they were perpetrated upon citizens who had been disarmed by the well-intentioned yet misguided actions of their elected legislative bodies.

[pilkguns]

Well said John! I was thinking along the same lines...

And for those of you who don't know, John is more than a fair pistol shot, and just got accepted into Harvard, where I am afraid that he will have to vocalize similar sentiments on occasion!

[bluechucky]

Well, I'm on Pips side of the fence on this... even though its a right royal pain in the behind to get a licence/Pistol here in Australia, I don't mind it one bit.

[Pradeep5]

I wonder if you will still support the laws when the next criminal nutjob goes on a rampage in Australia (and it's just a matter of time), and Little Johnnie bans all cartridge firing pistols.

Seems to me that there is a lot more daytime gangland shootings going on in Sydney since the new pistol restrictions came into place. Criminals not obeying laws, who would have thought....

As John has pointed out, US schools are a strict "gun-free" zone, at least in the hands of law abiding people. And funny enough, that's where a ton of mass murder has taken place.

[bluechucky]

You've convinced me Pradeep. I'll make sure my 3YO packs a pistol, some butterfly knifes and a machete when he next goes to Kindergarten.

I never realised there were sooo many homicidal maniacs out there!

Up until 9 months or so ago, I never so much as held a pistol before, and you know what, I've never felt unsafe walking the streets.

Now please, provide some statistics for your daytime gangland shooting comment.

I can then whip out some statistics comparing the Australian and US firearm homicides and I bet you wont be surprised who comes out more favourably?!?

IMHO, the problem in the US is a mixture of lax gun controls and a broad anger management problem.

Now I wouldn't advocate overly strict controls, but surely a balance is what is required here.

Whats wrong with enforcing licenses, having designated usage, legislated competitions, and enforced gun club membership?

Having any Joe Bloggs roaming the street and pulling his pistol 'cause you looked at him funny sucks more than tight gun control.

What this country (Australia) needs is less people sooking about gun control, and more people espousing what a great, friendly and safe sport it is.

(I'm sorry if my comments piss of our American friends and hosts, but BALANCE is all I'm advocating)

[pip]

Whoooops - too much blue touch paper there.

Guys - lets get back to the point of the forum and lets do it with less acrimony eh?

Gun laws are clearly a divisive issue and, frankly, I ain't gonna persuade you and you ain't gonna persuade me.

So lets quietly sweep the emerging mess under the rug in the corner of this gun club's social room and get back to what we are really here for - sharing our enjoyment of olympic style target shooting.

C'mon guys - group hug...

[Fred Mannis]

And for those of you who don't know, John is more than a fair pistol shot, and just got accepted into Harvard, where I am afraid that he will have to vocalize similar sentiments on occasion!

How times have changed! I learned to shoot a pistol at the Harvard Pistol Club in 1955. While not an official school team, we shot in the local Bullseye league and against some of the local colleges. We had a small range in the basement of one of the buildings where we stored our ammo and firearms. Absolutely no problems with the school administration. Of course, those were the days when Harvard still had ROTC on campus.

John - Congratulations and best of luck to you at Harvard.

[VladB]

Congratulations John!!

I still quite often go through the notes from the Shooting Clinic you you were a speaker of in 2002. Thanks!!

Vlad

Well said John! I was thinking along the same lines...

And for those of you who don't know, John is more than a fair pistol shot, and just got accepted into Harvard, where I am afraid that he will have to vocalize similar sentiments on occasion!

[bluechucky]

C'mon guys - group hug...

Big Hug....




Just watch where you put those hands! :)

[medinabrit]

you must remember that the uk is a democratic country & the vast majority of the people are anti gun .i personally dont like the law here that says i cant have a beer when walking down the street like you can in europe .or our restrictive speed limits on freeways ,but they are what the majority here want just as the majority in the uk are against gun ownership. by the way i saw frank bickar who i believe was johns dad shoot at perry & canton mcinley club often . he was a great pistol shooter & civilion national champ .i love my guns but must also go along with other countries wishes if i lived there .born in the uk now a us citizen. & proud of both.
brian

[Bill Poole]

I hate politics and would rather not discuss it here, but don't forget... Slavery and racial segregation and inequality were once overwhelmingly condoned by voters in a democratic USA. Just because the "majority" want something or a government is "democratic" does NOT make bad laws "right" or fair.

If a tiny minority of us want to shoot and own guns or read certain books or practice some minority religion or happen to have a different skin color or whatever, it is flat-out WRONG for a majority to deny us that right.

Oppression by the majority gives democracy a bad name.



Poole

[bluechucky]

Yeah, but you can't have open slather, because, shock horror - not everyone is responsible.

I like the Australian model, - you have to jump hoops, but you can still enjoy your sport if you want to put in.

[Sparks]

Oppression by the majority gives democracy a bad name.

True. Now, clearly define the term "oppression" in such a way that the above statement doesn't defend NAMBLA...