CM84 - ejection problems

[Heath]

Hi All,

I have recently purchased a CM84 (new) and i am using "SK Pistol Match" ammunition. This paticular brand of ammunition groups very well in this pistol, however will not eject. I have used "SK Pistol Match" in a borrowed CM84 previously with the same problem - failure to eject.

Can anybody please comment as to whether this is normal for SK ammunition? Can you also specify which brand of ammunition they prefer to use with your CM84 and while your at it, why you prefer this ammunition over others.

By the way the CM84 is a very nice FP.

Regards
Heath

[Lonnie]

Heath,

My experience showed the SK Pistol Match brass as longer than any other brass as compared to Eley (red/blue/white/black), Lapua Midas (L/M), Aguila (SE/Pistol Match). In a match chamber situation, there is a slight taper to the opening of the brass case mouth. It must seal well for "match" chambers and often this is where overly long brass sticks and is hard to extract.

After having a S&W 41 religned with a Hammerli liner and a match chamber cut, I could no longer shoot the SK Pistol Match and had to give it away. All other ammo listed above functions and shoots great. A shame for me because it is/was very accurate ammo.

Lonnie Meyers
Round Rock, Texas

[phil]

Hello Heath,

I experienced the same with my Hämmerli FP10. I intended to use Lapua pistol king because I had a lot in stock, but they never eject correctly. I try Eley (match and/or pistol plus), they eject fine and give the same precision.

Regards

Phil
Switzerland

[Ian]

Hi,

Like you, I just got my 84e. I have used SK Pistol Match, Match 50, Eley Tenex, Match, Pistol Match and Pistol Standard with little or no ejection problems.

One thing I did find is that you really need to do is to keep the breach mechanism really clean. Taking a cotton swab with just a touch of light oil like WD40 on it and swabbing around the entire mechanism including the space between the "barrel" and the breach block does the trick and makes a world of difference. Additionally your need to pay particular attention to the ejection "arm or lever." If not clean and clear of all dirt and grim it may not work as prescribed.

If this problem persists check with Scott or Warren for any additional suggestions.

As always keep'em all in the 10 ring,
Ian

[Guest]

I ran into the same problem and spoke with morini. After trying mutiple suggestions from top shooters and morini gunsmiths. I found one ammo that works is lapua pistol king. There is a difference between sk and lapua specs per lapua. If you would like the information I gained. I would be glad to talk to you by phone, so that you don't have to duplicate my efforts/ trials.

[Ernie Rodriguez]

Guest-I have settled on Pistol king and have recently tried sk plus.The sk seemed pretty good.If you have info to share on these two brands please contact me.Thanks Erod

[terrypchan]

I too have a new CM84E with ejection problems AND breech chamber closing problems. I finally settled on RWS 22LR Target Rifle ammo. Yes the Lapua Master L and Midas L both work flawlessly but they are double and triple the cost of the RWS Target Rifle ammo. RWS drops right in the chamber and the breech closes with no hassle. Any brands of ammo that I had to "push" the round really firmly into the chamber, such as the SK, also had ejection problems.

Yes, its been pointed out to me that SK and Lapua ammo are made by the same company but the specs on the two brands of ammo are NOT the same. My micrometer tells me the same thing!

So if price is no object choose any Lapua ammo and you'll have no problems in your CM84e. If you want a quality practice round try the RWS 22LR Target Rifle round. About $3 a box in the USA.

[Ernie Rodriguez]

RWS Tgt Rifle is only fair with ejection function in my cm84.I have found that S&K std vel PLUS works excellently and is reasonable in price.Worth a try.Erod.

[David M]

The free pistol chamber is very tight, I have put a Linz Match grade chambering reamer into a number of Morinis (including my own) and it solves the problem.
Make sure if you ream the chamber that you do not increase the depth of the chamber or you will cause headspace problems.
After reaming I can use any ammo with ease and still get a 18-22mm group at 50m from a machine rest.

[Ernie Rodriguez]

David-See email.Erod

[Kalish]

Tempting but scary.
Mark Briggs and Warren, What do you guys say?

[PaulT]

The ejection problem <<may>> be due to crud building up beneath the breech block and the block travel inhibited. If you search for earlier posts, Mark Briggs (Canada) did an excellent technical procedure for this. I and several others in UK have completed this without any problems. The document references the Morini manual part numbers and diagrams.

Lapua/S&K generate a lot more “bits” on firing than RWS/Eley and I need to clean under block every few thousand rounds.

I use a brush (breech to muzzle end direction only) with breakfree solvent followed by a bore snake until clean. Only old blue box cases had chambering / ejection problems and some budget Eley brands when very cold due to poor lube.

I have to echo findings on Pistol King. All of the Pistol King batches I have used have been excellent and sub 20mm groups, I think this is an excellent value brand from Lapua. Would be interested to know differences between Lapua and S&K if report or document is available (via PM? If not appropriate for full forum posting).

[zoned]

re: Reamer?

Tempting but scary.
Mark Briggs and Warren, What do you guys say?

Reaming works, but you might try lapping first because it removes less metal. If you look at chambers with magnification, even the finest firearms have rough machine marks. Lapping eases the fit _slightly_ and smoothes the tube.

[Mark Briggs]

I can't claim to be an expert on this subject, and certainly have nowhere near the experience of other posters who have already commented here. There are a couple of suggestions I would make that are pretty easy to implement and come at no- or low-cost.

Firstly, check the barrel alignment. The extractor/ejector is a small metal arm which projects vertically upward into a slit milled into the breechface of the barrel. When the breech is closed the extractor sits just beneath the edge of the cartridge rim. As the breech is opened, the extractor acts as a lever, pushing the spent casing rearward.

Two problems arise with the extractor. The first is that it must be perfectly aligned with the slit in the barrel in which it travels. If the barrel is installed with slight clockwise or counter-clockwise rotation the slit in the barrel will no longer be vertical. Since the extractor stands up vertically, a rotated barrel will bind the extractor and cause both difficult insertion and extraction. The second problem occurs if the barrel is rotated too far in a clockwise direction (as viewed from the rear of the pistol looking forward as though you were shooting), the extractor may actually be able to slip past the rim of the case, either barely extracting it, or sometimes not extracting it at all.

Both of these cases are easy to fix. With the breech open, loosen the screw holding the barrel in place (on underside of pistol, immediately forward of trigger guard). Rotate the barrel ever-so-slightly and check operation of the extractor. If it moves freely, tighten the barrel retaining screw and you're done. It's that easy!

The other solution has already been suggested here - a light lapping of the chamber. I'll only add that an easy and inexpensive method of lapping is to use VFG cleaning felts and metal polish. The felts are just the right size, and when installed on an appropriate cleaning rod, can be rotated with an electric drill. Just be careful not to lap too far forward or you'll be eating away at the chamber mouth.

I wish you good luck!

[FredB]

Could one or more of the posters to this thread please clarify something for me? Are you talking about "ejection" or "extraction"? Here's why I ask.

If "ejection" is what you really mean, then, having had experience with 8 different free pistols, I can say that none of them reliably ejected the spent shell, nor did that (lack of) action ever cause me any problem. I don't really understand why it would be a cause of concern.

If "extraction" is what you mean, then obviously that would be a problem. However, in my experience, I have found the failure to extract rather rare. Certain combinations of ammo and gun seemed to be problematical, but there were always plenty of other options to use. Again, only a minor worry at most.

Are the posters to this thread having a different experience? Have I been lucky, or just not fussy enough?

FredB

[zoned]

> none of them reliably ejected the spent shell


I've not had the experience of shooting an 84, but ISSF videos show that brisk operation of the falling block lever will toss the spent cartridge onto the floor, as does my Hammerli 160. My FP is not a worn out clunker, but will eject whatever is loaded. IMO, if a FP fights the round, then the chamber needs lapping, or something is binding.

[Ernie Rodriguez]

I have tried about 14 different kind of 22's.That was 6/7 brands that were reasonably priced,both in std vel and pistol match(not THE most expensive pistol match,but on par with Lapau Pistol King).Out of 14 brands-5 loaded and ejected with no problems at all.The others I had to use extra finger pressure because of engraving the head when inserted all the way(manually),some didn't pop out completely,requiring some fingernail help and some worked fine until 6-20 shots and then started with extraction difficulties.None of these eccentricities are major problems-they only surface in MY CM84e.I shoot 2 boxes a day(100 rnds)-5 days a week and decided to settle on the brands that loaded and ejected without problems.I keep the breech face clean using a pipe cleaner with a LITTLE bit of WD40 on it and the chamber is cleaned every 300-400 shots with a BRISTLE brush.I think perhaps the chamber is a little tighter than others and I am talking about my Morini and not a general statement FWIW.Maybe this info helps someone.Thanks all.Erod

[Mark Briggs]

A comment in response to FredB's note...

Extraction might be defined as a process which results in a cartridge case being partially withdrawn from the chamber and made ready for manual removal by the shooters fingers. This would be the definition used in single and double-barrel break-action shotguns.

Ejection, on the other hand, is the forciable explusion of the spent case from the pistol in such a manner that no further intervention is required on the part of the shooter to clear the action of the empty casing. Following successful ejection the pistol is ready to be reloaded.

In the case of free pistols, they often will extract a case but not eject it. As a case in point I'll offer my CM84. With one barrel cases are flung out of the gun and land about 6 feet in front of the firing point. With the other, newer barrel, I sometimes have to turn the gun over and dump the extracted case onto the shooting bench. Both barrels are being shot in the same receiver/frame, so the performance difference in this instance appearse to be related to the barrel itself. I'm sure that once I lap the chamber it will work much better.

The real problem with FP's is that in some instances cartridge cases will be partially extracted, requiring the shooter to hook a fingernail or jacknife under the rim of the case to finish off the extraction process, and then to manually remove the case from the breech area. This can be a royal pain in the keester. Sometimes the extractor slips past the rim of the case, leaving the cartridge firmly wedged in the chamber. When this happens one sometimes has to resort to using a ramrod to drive the case out - not a pretty thing to do to a free pistol!

I'll have no problem in agreeing that the odd case that doesn't eject from the gun is nothing to get worked up about. But if your gun won't extract cases it's a very frustrating situation.

[magyar]

Hi all,

I agree with FredB. What is the issue if it does not eject and you need to pull it out the last bit with you fingers.
I have had these ejection issues but found that by taking it out by hand it did not affect my score and now find it part of my routine and enjoy it.
I put it down to how dirty the chamber is and what and amount of lube is on the case.
What I am saying is rounds like SK magazine in the tin due to the lube are worse than say the SK Pistol Match from a packet.
The same type of round will be a little problematic in cold weather with a sport/standard pistol as well.
Even though it is sometimes annoying to have one not eject I far prefer it in my Free Pistol over my other guns and due to the relative price of the SK Magazine find it no hassle at all.
As many posters have said polishing/rheeming the chamber helps. I have two barrels and one is original and the other is not. I only have the ejection issues with the original barrel. The chamber on the replacement barrel is larger but has not affected it's accuracy at all. My second barrel was made to fit the new morini compensator with out making the gun into a rifle(due to the compensator length) so the barrel is less than 10 inches but has not changed it accuracy. The barrel is the same weight as a factory barrel but shorter. It is a nice option for those who want to try something different.

That was my 2 dollars worth.
Just live with it or change ammo; the gun is fine. Alternatively find a gunsmith with a 10-12 inch rifle barrel off cut and get him to turn a new barrel with a larger chamber.

Magyar