I am curious about something, I shoot Air Pustol, and Free Pistol. How many out there have a back up (spare) air or free pistol? And to take it a step or two further, do you think it important? Do you take them if you have them to a match routinely. Be interested in seeing how some of you feel about this. Have a great day!
Neil
Back Ups
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Personally, I do not think I could see myself owning two of each---(1) the expense; (2) I find that the feel of each of these special guns becomes so personal, I do not think I could easily adapt to a "back-up" even if they were the same identical gun. I have shot a friend's TOZ &/or Hammerli and found the feel of the triggers to be vastly different from my own, other factors not withstanding. No, I could not use a back-up, only if I had to lose the services of that gun for an extended period of time.
I'll second what Bob said...I can't afford to have a couple of free pistols, etc. on hand. Now, if I were Olympic caliber and shooting in big matches, I'm sure it would be a different story. I do have a second air pistol, a Steyr LP5P, that I take as a backup to my Morini as you tend to have additional complications with them (I've been battling a leaky cylinder). I did have to press it into service once, but it probably cost me several points as I adjusted to the different trigger on it...but it beat not being able to finish the match!
Lee
Lee
Back Up Guns
My back up gun for my fee pistol is my standard pistol. It was also my back up for rapid fire back when we could use 22 short guns. Lately, I have been bringing my older standard pistol along with my primary guns, just in case my new standard pistol acts up.
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Neil Foster
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:57 pm
- Location: Marietta, GA
Back ups
I guess I should have been more explicit, my bad! I was referring to have a back up the same as the primary one. I can understand the cost factor, it can be a problem. Actually my air pistol (Steyr LP-10) cost more than the free pistol (TOZ 35M). I really like them both.
Neil
Neil
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Neil Foster
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:57 pm
- Location: Marietta, GA
Paranoid??
Mr. Riegel,
I asked a simple question! Does that qualify as Paranoia? Wow, I have noticed that some people are told they are stupid, or whatever when asking a simple question. It seems to me that the purpose of this board is for education from experienced members. Paranoia, I think not, just curiosity. I know many Bullseye shooters have backup equipment, I wondered if some Internaational style shooters did the same.
Neil
I asked a simple question! Does that qualify as Paranoia? Wow, I have noticed that some people are told they are stupid, or whatever when asking a simple question. It seems to me that the purpose of this board is for education from experienced members. Paranoia, I think not, just curiosity. I know many Bullseye shooters have backup equipment, I wondered if some Internaational style shooters did the same.
Neil
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Patrick Haynes
Backups
Hi guys.
Backups are your best friends for two reasons, but first a qualification. I have backups for air and standard. I coach my fiance. If my gun fails (Morini 162EI), she has an extra Morini which I throw my grip on and carry on with (actually happened once at our Nationals.) If her primary gun fails (Steyr LP-10), then she falls back to her old Morini. Now, in Sport pistol, if her Pardini SP New fails, then she falls back to her slightly older Pardini SP. She used to take my old Walther GSP as her backup gun wherever she travelled.
In most cases, you will not need to have a backup pistol, if you have critical replacement parts which could fail. I have an extra bolt for my GSP, plus mags and even an extra barrel. With some guns, like the GSP, if you're at a big competition and it fails, odds are you can scrounge replacements. BUT, if the guns does fails, can you handle that sort of mental stress?
Easiest answer (aside from all financial constraints) is to have a ready backup pistol with which you train on a semi-regular basis. Let's face it: if you don't train with it, then you don't know it and your confidence will be undermined if you need to use it.
Another option is to make sure that when you compete, you and a buddy are set up to shoot on different relays. If one gun fails, you can borrow their equipment.
The other advantage of a backup gun is to help work you out of a slump in your training. Let's say that your performance is stagnating or declining. Don't keep hammering away doing the same thing. Make a change and a good start is to your backup gun. You already have a need to be familiar with it, but as you do so, you inject "newness" into your game. Ever heard of the "New Gun Effect?" Same thing but it's cheaper.
On a side note, many people sell their old gun to finance a new one. Dangerous move and here's why. One fellow on the National team had an older free rifle which was setup perfectly for him. He decided to sell it off to get a newer, better one. The transaction was made and the old rifle went to it's new owner and the new rifle was delivered to our competitor.
Despite the rifle being better, the fellow could not get the same groups. They were worse. He looked through his diaries, checked settings, had coaches review what he was doing. Nothing. Finally, in desperation (looming international competition), he asked the fellow who he had sold his old rifle to, to loan it back to him Upon it's return, he shot it and produced beautiful groups. Huh? Going over and comparing the settings, he found that his butt plate was set slightly different on the new rifle. Once he made the changes (so it matched the old gun), his groups tightened and he performed better with the new rifle (as he had hoped.) He took the old rifle to the match with him, but didn't need to use it.
Sooooooooooooooo, by holding on to his old equipment, he was able to properly set up his new equipment and maintain peace of mind at a big match. Same references can be drawn for pistol.
If you can afford the backup (usuallyafter an upgrade/refresh), it makes great sense.
Patrick
Backups are your best friends for two reasons, but first a qualification. I have backups for air and standard. I coach my fiance. If my gun fails (Morini 162EI), she has an extra Morini which I throw my grip on and carry on with (actually happened once at our Nationals.) If her primary gun fails (Steyr LP-10), then she falls back to her old Morini. Now, in Sport pistol, if her Pardini SP New fails, then she falls back to her slightly older Pardini SP. She used to take my old Walther GSP as her backup gun wherever she travelled.
In most cases, you will not need to have a backup pistol, if you have critical replacement parts which could fail. I have an extra bolt for my GSP, plus mags and even an extra barrel. With some guns, like the GSP, if you're at a big competition and it fails, odds are you can scrounge replacements. BUT, if the guns does fails, can you handle that sort of mental stress?
Easiest answer (aside from all financial constraints) is to have a ready backup pistol with which you train on a semi-regular basis. Let's face it: if you don't train with it, then you don't know it and your confidence will be undermined if you need to use it.
Another option is to make sure that when you compete, you and a buddy are set up to shoot on different relays. If one gun fails, you can borrow their equipment.
The other advantage of a backup gun is to help work you out of a slump in your training. Let's say that your performance is stagnating or declining. Don't keep hammering away doing the same thing. Make a change and a good start is to your backup gun. You already have a need to be familiar with it, but as you do so, you inject "newness" into your game. Ever heard of the "New Gun Effect?" Same thing but it's cheaper.
On a side note, many people sell their old gun to finance a new one. Dangerous move and here's why. One fellow on the National team had an older free rifle which was setup perfectly for him. He decided to sell it off to get a newer, better one. The transaction was made and the old rifle went to it's new owner and the new rifle was delivered to our competitor.
Despite the rifle being better, the fellow could not get the same groups. They were worse. He looked through his diaries, checked settings, had coaches review what he was doing. Nothing. Finally, in desperation (looming international competition), he asked the fellow who he had sold his old rifle to, to loan it back to him Upon it's return, he shot it and produced beautiful groups. Huh? Going over and comparing the settings, he found that his butt plate was set slightly different on the new rifle. Once he made the changes (so it matched the old gun), his groups tightened and he performed better with the new rifle (as he had hoped.) He took the old rifle to the match with him, but didn't need to use it.
Sooooooooooooooo, by holding on to his old equipment, he was able to properly set up his new equipment and maintain peace of mind at a big match. Same references can be drawn for pistol.
If you can afford the backup (usuallyafter an upgrade/refresh), it makes great sense.
Patrick
backups
I usually have a backup AP with me, anyway. Not necessarily as a backup, though. Once in a while, someone brings their friend, wife, or kid, to see what we're up to. My "backup" becomes a fine loan-er, and, maybe, we end up eventually with a new, and regular, shooter on the line.
I have backups and spare parts for both my Std. Pistol (GSP) and Air Pistol (LP10 Back-up LP5). I eventually will have one for my FP when I buy a new one. It may sound expensive but if you compete a lot and travel it is really cheap insurance. I'd hate to spend a $2-3000 on traveling to a match (air,hotel,car, match fees, and ect.) and not be able to shoot. Like Patrick says if you just hold on to one of your older pistols when you upgrade it makes a natural back-up which you have some experience with. It's on less thing to worry about knowing that you have a back-up should anything go wrong with you primary.
I have an LP5 which I can use a back up if I really have to for the LP10 but I don't carry it to matches unless I'm shooting 5 shot events as well (maybe I should ?). If or when I replace either I will almost certainly keep the old gun, at least for as long as it takes me to get used to the set up etc.
If you shoot big matches you will usually have a service engineer or gunsmith present. If you take a spare gun do you put it through equipment control on the off chance ?
Rob.
If you shoot big matches you will usually have a service engineer or gunsmith present. If you take a spare gun do you put it through equipment control on the off chance ?
Rob.
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Tom Monto
Back-up
I can agree with Patrick. When we go to more important matches we try to have a back-up. Same type, make, model.
Some of the problems we have had: Rifle failed to charge (CO2), trigger went out, etc. It is difficult to determine if it is a lack of air (CO2) that causes a malfunction. Low air (CO2) does not get you a disabled rifle according to the rules. At one match we went through 4 co2 cylinders, trying to finish. After the match it was found that a seal had cracked. Rifle was rebuilt by a gunsmith in attendance, but he messed up the trigger in the process, it now had a release trigger, junior shooter did not tell me about it until she came off the line....ug....
One year a Perry I was torquing the bedding screws on a 1813, when the screw went all the way around. I am on the line in 30 minutes, Went to an Army armourer behind the range, he could not help. Shot prone with a disabled rifle, you can imagine the score with the front bedding screw loose. Went to see the Ansultz rep, he repaired it before my standing phase. If I had a spare.... (I now carry exoxy in my box)
If you are with a team there usually is someone who is not on the same relay...
Moral of the story..... carry a spare even if you need to borrow a rifle/pistol. You may not win with it, but you may save the team. Paticularly air! A gunsmith is not always available.
TM
Some of the problems we have had: Rifle failed to charge (CO2), trigger went out, etc. It is difficult to determine if it is a lack of air (CO2) that causes a malfunction. Low air (CO2) does not get you a disabled rifle according to the rules. At one match we went through 4 co2 cylinders, trying to finish. After the match it was found that a seal had cracked. Rifle was rebuilt by a gunsmith in attendance, but he messed up the trigger in the process, it now had a release trigger, junior shooter did not tell me about it until she came off the line....ug....
One year a Perry I was torquing the bedding screws on a 1813, when the screw went all the way around. I am on the line in 30 minutes, Went to an Army armourer behind the range, he could not help. Shot prone with a disabled rifle, you can imagine the score with the front bedding screw loose. Went to see the Ansultz rep, he repaired it before my standing phase. If I had a spare.... (I now carry exoxy in my box)
If you are with a team there usually is someone who is not on the same relay...
Moral of the story..... carry a spare even if you need to borrow a rifle/pistol. You may not win with it, but you may save the team. Paticularly air! A gunsmith is not always available.
TM
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Mike McDaniel
I'll agree with Tom. The way that I look at it, you need a supply of critical spares for any significant match, and a whole backup gun for the really big matches.
It's not just about your score. It's also about being able to support the team, both with your score and by being able to provide a teammate who's gun has broken or gone missing with something to shoot.
Frankly, I'd recommend shipping the primary and backup guns in separate containers, if possible, just to make sure that one gets through. No, I don't trust the airlines one bit. Not after a disastrous trip to Italy in 2002.
It's not just about your score. It's also about being able to support the team, both with your score and by being able to provide a teammate who's gun has broken or gone missing with something to shoot.
Frankly, I'd recommend shipping the primary and backup guns in separate containers, if possible, just to make sure that one gets through. No, I don't trust the airlines one bit. Not after a disastrous trip to Italy in 2002.