[quote="Anonymous"]So they couldn't just be a winning air rifle team until the range issues get resolved? Doesn't the ROTC have a stake in the range too? Or is dropping ROTC next?quote]
Hi
Oddly enough, I don't think that there is any connection between ROTC and shooting in the USA. There ARE ROTC shooting teams, but I haven't understood that shooting is a requirement for even Navy ROTC Marine Corps Option. I believe that at University of Illinois in the early 1980's, ROTC did NO shooting. None of the guys on my floor talked about it anyway. My lab partner who was in the Marine Platoon leaders classes only shot during "summer camp" and of course in basic.
Sorry
Mike
Xavier University Cancels Rifle!
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
I can see that but they were also making it out to be much worse than it is. The work could easily be done for half of what the bid was and the contractor said that.Anonymous wrote:The issue is two-fold: Xavier's range requires a major renovation. Xavier was balking at the price tag for it (in the six figure area).
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Society1831
Xavier does have an ROTC program, but the program is in no danger of being cut.
Xavier's ROTC was forbidden to use Xavier's range by the US Army because of safety reasons, namely the range has no ventilation system. Whether Xavier's ROTC follows those orders is another matter.
Apparently it was a big issue 10 years ago when the Army first discovered that ROTC was using a range that had no ventilation. They conducted some tests and then issued a directive stating ROTC could not use Xavier's range because of the ventilation problems. As years have gone by and ROTC leadership changed they gradually began using the range again, but sparsely maybe 5 or 6 times per year.
Marksmanship training is not part of ROTC so Xavier's ROTC will be fine without the range, especially since they are technical not allowed to use it.
Xavier's ROTC was forbidden to use Xavier's range by the US Army because of safety reasons, namely the range has no ventilation system. Whether Xavier's ROTC follows those orders is another matter.
Apparently it was a big issue 10 years ago when the Army first discovered that ROTC was using a range that had no ventilation. They conducted some tests and then issued a directive stating ROTC could not use Xavier's range because of the ventilation problems. As years have gone by and ROTC leadership changed they gradually began using the range again, but sparsely maybe 5 or 6 times per year.
Marksmanship training is not part of ROTC so Xavier's ROTC will be fine without the range, especially since they are technical not allowed to use it.
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JoeF
Some Recent updates with Xavier Rifle:
Link: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ ... 0/1078/SPT
(Article Posted Below)
XU still has goals in its sights
NCAA qualifier today first step to making tough year worthwhile
By Colleen Kane
Enquirer staff writer
The banners hang in a silver stairwell leading to the upstairs of the Armory, hidden from most of the Xavier world, but an intimidating sight for those teams making their way up to Walsh Rifle Range:
2000 NCAA 2nd
2001 NCAA 4th
2002 NCAA 3rd
2003 NCAA 2nd
2004 NCAA 5th
The massive "Xavier Rifle" sign hangs next to them, proclaiming the program's 17 All-Americans, two Olympians and 13 top-10 rankings since 1990. Amid all the written accomplishments read the years 2005-2009, with blanks next to each one - lonely spaces that might never be filled.
The Musketeers compete today in an NCAA qualifier at home. They will be trying to earn a spot in what probably will be their final NCAA Championships.
In late November, Xavier announced budget cuts would force the discontinuation of the rifle program after this year. Because of budget reallocations, first-year athletic director Dawn Rogers had to make a tough choice: cut money from several sports, or eliminate an entire program.
With low participation numbers nationwide and other financial issues facing the program, rifle was chosen to be the sport to go. Rogers, who became athletic director in June, called it the hardest decision she's made.
"It's a hard discussion to have with these young men and women, to talk about the fact that it might not necessarily be a (collegiate) sport with a really big future," Rogers said. "We don't have the breadth and depth with it as we have with our other programs."
As a result, one of the Musketeers' most successful sports programs, which started in the 1930s and became an NCAA varsity sport in 1982, must search for other ways to stay alive.
"You hate to see something like that happen to something you put 23 years into. It's been tough," 23-year Xavier rifle coach Alan Joseph said. "For something that I've touched all of those years to come to an end is a little difficult, but I understand the circumstances and the reasoning behind it. ... I'm an alum of Xavier and so I want what's best for the university, and if that is it, then I accept it. Time will help heal that.
"But I'm also very hopeful that between my alumni, parents and supporters that maybe, maybe, another solution can be reached."
The students' perspective
There are 26 colleges in the country that sponsor mixed rifle programs, including 18 in Division I, according to the NCAA Web site. Eleven additional Division I schools (15 overall) sponsor men's and/or women's programs. Compare that with men's golf or men's tennis, other sports that could have gotten the ax in the Xavier budget cuts. Both have more than 200 schools competing at the Division I level.
"In the end, I would still be telling student-athletes that they're not going to be able to compete," Rogers said. "Picking one team over another might make rifle happy, but then it's going to make another team unhappy."
Daniel Ault was recruited out of high school in Bedford, Pa., by Alaska-Fairbanks, Tennessee Tech, Rose-Hulman, Ohio State and just about every other school that offers rifle. He chose Xavier because of the program's recent success, the family atmosphere of the team and what he thought was program security.
"The one thing that was big for me was they really promoted when they recruited me how solid this program was and how backed-up it was," Ault said.
Now, after his freshman season, Ault has to decide to stay or go.
Xavier will honor the scholarships of the remaining eight team members or will release the athletes to go to other schools. Rogers said she hopes the students decide to finish their educations at Xavier.
For the three freshmen like Ault, moving on might be an option, because they still have three years of eligibility left to offer other schools. But few schools are likely to take on the program's three juniors for just one year of eligibility.
So they're left trying to deal with competing in their last season, a position Ault said has been taxing psychologically. The Musketeers are 5-4 entering their last home competition today. Their goal is to make the NCAA Championships and finish in the top five for the sixth straight year. They'd love to make the top four and bring home a trophy. But ...
"There's definitely a sense of, 'Why does it matter what we do?' " junior Rich Gauvin said. "They don't care ... because they chose to discontinue our program. But then there's the other side that says we want to show them what we're made of when we're going out. To try to go out in the top four so we can bring home a trophy to put on their desk."
Can the team be saved?
"Without the Xavier team, I don't think I'd have gone to the Olympics," 2000 Olympian Thrine Kane said. "They gave me the push and desire to do better. ... They held me together for four years. They were my friends and family."
Said 2000 and 2004 Olympian Jason Parker: "I made my biggest improvements in my rifle career at Xavier."
If Xavier rifle has a chance at revival, it's alumni such as Kane and Parker who will be counted on to save it.
Savexurifle.org is the Web site started by a small group of Xavier rifle supporters, headed by three-time All-American Danielle Langfield. The Web site asks rifle supporters to sign a petition, withhold donations to the university until the team is reinstated, and give donations to the rifle fund. Langfield said the group is first trying to get the Xavier administration to work with them and that the organization has received interest in corporate sponsorship of the team.
"The wider shooting community is very interested in this problem and solving it," Langfield said.
But getting enough funds is a tall task.
Like most sports, except basketball, rifle doesn't make Xavier money. Walsh Rifle Range also has ventilation problems that would require repair in upcoming years. Rogers estimates facility upgrades would cost at least $500,000 - and it isn't known how the Armory fits into Xavier's long-term plans.
Rogers said the athletic department would not reinstate the program on a year-by-year basis and that an endowment of roughly $3 million would have to be established before reinstatement would be considered.
"We went through a similar situation when we discontinued football (1973), and there was a clamor as loud as or louder than this," Rogers said. "In the end, the funds just weren't found to save it."
The annual operating budget for the rifle program, including 2.9 scholarships and Joseph's part-time coaching salary, is in the $150,000 range.
If funds are not found to reinstate the program, the rifle members have the option of forming a club team next season. Joseph has said the Great American Rifle Conference will allow the team to continue competition within the conference.
Rogers said she encourages the formation of a club team. But it would still mean that for the first time since 1988, a representative of Xavier would not be present at the NCAA Championships.
Come March, the team might hang its last banner.
E-mail ckane@enquirer.com
Link: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ ... 0/1078/SPT
(Article Posted Below)
XU still has goals in its sights
NCAA qualifier today first step to making tough year worthwhile
By Colleen Kane
Enquirer staff writer
The banners hang in a silver stairwell leading to the upstairs of the Armory, hidden from most of the Xavier world, but an intimidating sight for those teams making their way up to Walsh Rifle Range:
2000 NCAA 2nd
2001 NCAA 4th
2002 NCAA 3rd
2003 NCAA 2nd
2004 NCAA 5th
The massive "Xavier Rifle" sign hangs next to them, proclaiming the program's 17 All-Americans, two Olympians and 13 top-10 rankings since 1990. Amid all the written accomplishments read the years 2005-2009, with blanks next to each one - lonely spaces that might never be filled.
The Musketeers compete today in an NCAA qualifier at home. They will be trying to earn a spot in what probably will be their final NCAA Championships.
In late November, Xavier announced budget cuts would force the discontinuation of the rifle program after this year. Because of budget reallocations, first-year athletic director Dawn Rogers had to make a tough choice: cut money from several sports, or eliminate an entire program.
With low participation numbers nationwide and other financial issues facing the program, rifle was chosen to be the sport to go. Rogers, who became athletic director in June, called it the hardest decision she's made.
"It's a hard discussion to have with these young men and women, to talk about the fact that it might not necessarily be a (collegiate) sport with a really big future," Rogers said. "We don't have the breadth and depth with it as we have with our other programs."
As a result, one of the Musketeers' most successful sports programs, which started in the 1930s and became an NCAA varsity sport in 1982, must search for other ways to stay alive.
"You hate to see something like that happen to something you put 23 years into. It's been tough," 23-year Xavier rifle coach Alan Joseph said. "For something that I've touched all of those years to come to an end is a little difficult, but I understand the circumstances and the reasoning behind it. ... I'm an alum of Xavier and so I want what's best for the university, and if that is it, then I accept it. Time will help heal that.
"But I'm also very hopeful that between my alumni, parents and supporters that maybe, maybe, another solution can be reached."
The students' perspective
There are 26 colleges in the country that sponsor mixed rifle programs, including 18 in Division I, according to the NCAA Web site. Eleven additional Division I schools (15 overall) sponsor men's and/or women's programs. Compare that with men's golf or men's tennis, other sports that could have gotten the ax in the Xavier budget cuts. Both have more than 200 schools competing at the Division I level.
"In the end, I would still be telling student-athletes that they're not going to be able to compete," Rogers said. "Picking one team over another might make rifle happy, but then it's going to make another team unhappy."
Daniel Ault was recruited out of high school in Bedford, Pa., by Alaska-Fairbanks, Tennessee Tech, Rose-Hulman, Ohio State and just about every other school that offers rifle. He chose Xavier because of the program's recent success, the family atmosphere of the team and what he thought was program security.
"The one thing that was big for me was they really promoted when they recruited me how solid this program was and how backed-up it was," Ault said.
Now, after his freshman season, Ault has to decide to stay or go.
Xavier will honor the scholarships of the remaining eight team members or will release the athletes to go to other schools. Rogers said she hopes the students decide to finish their educations at Xavier.
For the three freshmen like Ault, moving on might be an option, because they still have three years of eligibility left to offer other schools. But few schools are likely to take on the program's three juniors for just one year of eligibility.
So they're left trying to deal with competing in their last season, a position Ault said has been taxing psychologically. The Musketeers are 5-4 entering their last home competition today. Their goal is to make the NCAA Championships and finish in the top five for the sixth straight year. They'd love to make the top four and bring home a trophy. But ...
"There's definitely a sense of, 'Why does it matter what we do?' " junior Rich Gauvin said. "They don't care ... because they chose to discontinue our program. But then there's the other side that says we want to show them what we're made of when we're going out. To try to go out in the top four so we can bring home a trophy to put on their desk."
Can the team be saved?
"Without the Xavier team, I don't think I'd have gone to the Olympics," 2000 Olympian Thrine Kane said. "They gave me the push and desire to do better. ... They held me together for four years. They were my friends and family."
Said 2000 and 2004 Olympian Jason Parker: "I made my biggest improvements in my rifle career at Xavier."
If Xavier rifle has a chance at revival, it's alumni such as Kane and Parker who will be counted on to save it.
Savexurifle.org is the Web site started by a small group of Xavier rifle supporters, headed by three-time All-American Danielle Langfield. The Web site asks rifle supporters to sign a petition, withhold donations to the university until the team is reinstated, and give donations to the rifle fund. Langfield said the group is first trying to get the Xavier administration to work with them and that the organization has received interest in corporate sponsorship of the team.
"The wider shooting community is very interested in this problem and solving it," Langfield said.
But getting enough funds is a tall task.
Like most sports, except basketball, rifle doesn't make Xavier money. Walsh Rifle Range also has ventilation problems that would require repair in upcoming years. Rogers estimates facility upgrades would cost at least $500,000 - and it isn't known how the Armory fits into Xavier's long-term plans.
Rogers said the athletic department would not reinstate the program on a year-by-year basis and that an endowment of roughly $3 million would have to be established before reinstatement would be considered.
"We went through a similar situation when we discontinued football (1973), and there was a clamor as loud as or louder than this," Rogers said. "In the end, the funds just weren't found to save it."
The annual operating budget for the rifle program, including 2.9 scholarships and Joseph's part-time coaching salary, is in the $150,000 range.
If funds are not found to reinstate the program, the rifle members have the option of forming a club team next season. Joseph has said the Great American Rifle Conference will allow the team to continue competition within the conference.
Rogers said she encourages the formation of a club team. But it would still mean that for the first time since 1988, a representative of Xavier would not be present at the NCAA Championships.
Come March, the team might hang its last banner.
E-mail ckane@enquirer.com
-
JoeF
Please check out our web page:
http://www.savexurifle.org/
Thanks for everyone's support,
Joe Fitzgibbon XU' 03
http://www.savexurifle.org/
Thanks for everyone's support,
Joe Fitzgibbon XU' 03