Free Pistol Morini 84 E against Hammerli FP 10

[Guest]

Hi,
I understand that most of you are very familiar with the Morini free pistol. It is a nice gun with a reputation and capable of high results. Nevertheless I have sold it off and I am now shooting Hammerli FP 10. Here is why.

The 84 E has a electronic trigger, but a mechanic trigger can, with more or less effort, be even better. If you forget to switch of the beam it will cause the battery to dry out in a short time.
When I used Hammeri 152, it had an electric trigger, a shoot could get off when closing the breech. The beam invention on Morini is to make it safer in that respect.
When there is a mechanic trigger you will set the trigger after the breech is closed. A beam has no purpuse if not used with an electronic trigger.

If not cleaned it could go off when closing the breech, the beam can not help you there.

The grip of a FP 10 can be adjusted for angle and a little more. Rink does make grips to FP 10 so you have an alternative.

The compensator is very good. On Morini pistol very few uses a compensator.

The sights can be adjusted without a screw driver and are not as shallow as on the Morini.
The stabilizers are…. Cool? I shoot better with than without though.

I am a bit puzzled about the manufacturing:

In the manual there is a drawing signed by Cesar Morini. On top of the gun it says SAM and on the side it says Hammerli FP 10. I think the barrel is Hammerli, design Morini and manufactured by SAM. I hope every one has done what he is good at.

This is what talks against Morini 84 E:
Battery. The constant need of a spare battery.
Stuck with grip, no alternative, no angle adjustment.
No compensator.
Shallow sights. The need of a screw driver.
Shallow sear engagement, sensitive if not clean.
Weight.

In air pistol Morini has mechanical and electronic versions.
This corresponds to FP 10 and 84 E. although 84 E is a bit old now.
IMHO

Kent

[another guest]

Thank you, Kent.

I have in a couple of former posts promoted the FP 10 a little.
It is a truly lovely gun.
Light in weight, but with an attractive and effective compensator it does not recoil much more than some much heavier freepistols.
The trigger is good, and even better after I exchanged the original trigger tension spring of the 2. step with a lighter one *same as for the Morini 163 Mi APs(. One can then bring the trigger release weight down to what I prefer, 30 / 40 grams. It can be adjusted further down to 20 or even 15 grams, and stay stable.

The FP 10 arrives from the factory with a two/step trigger. The handbook explaines how to detach the 1. step, givinig in my opinion a good and resonably crisp single stage trigger.

I can also achieve better scores with the FP 10 than my former, russian made, FP.

Those @spiderlegg@ stabilizers_ Well, I hope the factory or aftermarket will bring us weights that can be attached to the gun in a different manner.

The dryfiring device of the FP 10 is also very simple and practical.
I hope SAM&Hammerli will produce this FP for many years.

The grip is adjustable, and available in various sizes. I find the grip comfortable and good looking.

[phil]

And with a Rink grip, the FP10 is perfect.

[Another another guest]

Like it or not, the Morini 84E is taking medals everywhere and top shooters use it not just for the electronic trigger. Same with the TOZ, stands proudly on the firing line with its 37-year-old birth certificate and a low price tag.

Morini factory compensator is proven effective and there are aftermarket ones available. I heard about TOZ comps but never saw one. Tenk Martin won WC with a TOZ and he needs no comp.

FP10 is now out of production and Hammerli never explained why. IMHO, Hammerli had been distroying their reputation in recent years with one after another disappointments. However, I believe that Tenk Martin or Yifu Wang can easily kick most people's behind if they were given nothing but an FP10.

THERE IS NO MAGIC GUN, wake up and go practice.
THERE IS NO MAGIC GRIP, go work on/with whatever comes with the gun.

By the way, Phil, are you sure that nice looking FP10 fits your hand? I don't see no putties.

[Reinhamre]

Hi,
I merely intended to point at some flaws.
It seems that nobody dares to say anything negative about the 84 E because it is so much in vauge. There is a tomorrow you know. It is not that one size fits all, is it

Guest
Kent

[Another another guest]

No body dares? What about my big bad mouth:

Plastic trigger electronic assembly holding the trigger guard: possibly fragile. Although I had not yet broken mine nor seen a broken one.

Front sight tube attached to the barrel with one single screw - shot location moves not only vertically when making weight adjustment.

Grip is too narrow/thin on the thumb area, like most Morini grips: thumb hanging out side.

Trigger (shoe) made of a thin steel plate: feels like bending a leave spring.

Solenoid gets dirty too easily.

15v battery costs almost $10 a piece.

For the big $ I spend, I get a pretty good (seriously) gun with: a cheap plastic box which does not secure my gun, one 5.0 mm standard front sight only and extras cost more, a large grip when I ordered a medium and the outer carton check-marked "medium", a compensator cost about another US$100, a test target with one "flyer" out of that rugged hole, ........., and the list goes on.

But I do not whine about my FP, no matter which one, just because it doesn't shoot 600/60 in my hand.

[phil]

I buy this new Rink grip because the original one did not fit to my little hand. I have done a lot of modifications to the original grip but I was not able to align it enough and my shots were often going to the right.

I tried this new grip (with 7 degrees correction) yesterday and it fit really nice to my hand and without any modification for the moment. The contact surface between my hand and the hood is very large and I have a good feeling when shooting.

I did not buy this grip for the nice looking but just because I cannot make something correct with the original one.

If the new grip make the pistol more "sexy", why Not !

[Reinhamre]

FP10 is now out of production

Who says that??
It may well be so. Everybody is so happy with what you have.

Angle of grip can not be adjusted. Nice, use putty. No aftermarket grip. Be happy! Practice! Heavy? Very macho! I believe you were happy before the 84 E! It was Hammerli then and the 152 model was a disappointment Heard about evolution? In comes Morini 84 E. It will not end here. By the way, it is US$20 for a battery and US$ 200 for a compensator.

Kent

[Reinhamre]

phil,
Have you taken the compensator apart yet?
Copper past is needed so it will not stick together. Or have you any better idea?
Kent

[dhurt]

hey Phil, I have got to say that your pistol is way cool looking?

[guest]

Yes, I have dismounted and cleaned the compensator of my FP 10 several times.
If must be done very 500 - 700 rounds, or less. Lead and powder residue are "cementing" the inner cone/nozzle to the inside of the comp. body. Soaking in pentrating oil helps, then some very careful pushing from both ends with a wooden rod (no metal!) will free the cone. The shorter the cleaning interval the easier this shore becomes.

Copper paste, intended for brake shoes? Maybe? If it helps I will let you know. Thanks for the hint.

[R.E. Smalley]

The only compensated pistol I have is a 14 inch contender in 45-70 Gov't. The compensator isn't removable, and the thought of shooting it with out it doesn't appeal to me.

But this part of the thread made me think about shotgun shooters and their screw choke tubes.

Has anyone tried never-seize or other moly paste?

How about shotgun choke tube lube (or whatever they call it)?

Kroil is the best penetrating oil, bar none. You can often find it at gun shows because some folks use it with bore bleaning paste to clean their rifles.

Ed

[Jim in SC]

It is nice to see people using their own judgement and trying different free pistols. The Hammerli has many qualities which I think are novel and warrant merit. Yet it is out of production now, and in the US I cannot find any dealers who carry it or who have nice things to say about it.
Wade Anderson (HammerliUSA) says he doesn't like them and that they are not accurate. Larry Carter doesn't like the alloy frame. So, I would like to ask our FP 10 users or others who have actually used the FP10 to please post their experiences. We've already heard much about the Morini and TOZ.
What about the SAM FP50 that Don Nygord had planned to import? He has some pics on the what's new page of www.nygord-precision.com
Is this the same or similar to the FP10?

[Guest]

Dear FP "crowd":

I have used my Haemmerli/SAM FP 10 for traning and competitions inland and abroad with fair success.
Testing shows that the FP 10 is as accurate as any other top end FP. And mine is not very selective about ammo.
The gun is forgivingly easy to shoot, and has a (for me) comfortable grip.

The barrel is made by Haemmerli. Haemmerli barrels have a long reputation for good accuracy.

But I admit I am not too keen on those stabilizer "legs".

I think currently the FP 10 is one of the more appealing modern FPs.
If you can get hold of one, new or used, then my advice is but it and test it out. You will probably not regret the purchase.

By the way, on photos, the SAM 50 FP appears suspectingly similar to the FP 10.....

[Reinhamre]

This is what talks against Morini 84 E:
Battery. The constant need of a spare battery.
Stuck with grip, no alternative, no angle adjustment.
No compensator.
Shallow sights. The need of a screw driver.
Shallow sear engagement, sensitive if not clean.
Weight.

Hi,
A mercury switch, that allows you only to fire when the pistol is held horizontal. Then there is no need for a beam in the trigger assembly. Hence a 1,5 volt battery like in AP will do the job. The trigger of 84 E is great.

The other parts I mentioned are easy to correct in next model.
I can not understand why a pistol should be less then perfect.
We afficados do not see the gun as a weapon or a mere tool. It is an instrument on which we create lovely tunes. (Put in a smile here.)

The TOZ is a great gun but the quality is not the best. New pistols with the same design and of better quality will not be produced. There are too many old TOZ. All new FP MUST be different from the TOZ.
Kent

[Luis Medina]

A mercury switch, that allows you only to fire when the pistol is held horizontal. Then there is no need for a beam in the trigger assembly. Hence a 1,5 volt battery like in AP will do the job. The trigger of 84 E is great.

The mercury switch sounds like a great idea and maybe good for "Men in Black" type movies. Besides for this to work you'd have to guarantee the pistol in NOT held horizontally when not wanting to fire, i.e., transporting, storing, etc.

Step back a little and think about the problem the light beam is trying to solve. They're trying to add a safety feature but it requires the use of a larger capacity battery. The mercury switch is a possibility but now you're dealing with a toxic element that needs to be properly contained. Other characteristics of the metal need to be cosidered as well: oxidation, temperature, etc. Again, sounds promising but it belongs in the same high tech category as the light beam: "Overkill".

Why not just add a safety button. Try a mechanical switch integrated to the grip so to only fired when the grip is being held. This would solve the battery problem and improve the reliability of the pistol (Murphy's law).

If you just can't live without the electronics, how about a pressure switch on the grip. Or the mother of them all: "A fingerprint scanner that only allows shots when the owner is gripping the gun" (Any pattents resulting from this idea need to add my name....wait, I think someone's already thought of it...oh well!)

But then again, if you take away the gimmicks then the gun starts looking like every other gun. It would have to stand by what it what originally designed to do: "Shoot bullets in a deterministic projectile trajectory". For you UCLA folks that means shoot straight....(sorry! old college rivalry).

The folks in marketing may have a harder time selling just another gun.

Ignoring all the gimmicks:

Can anyone tell me, once and for all, what FP shoots a 10 every time?

I'd like to know since my current pistol only shoots as well as I shoot it....;-)

My $0.02,

Luis

[R.E. Smalley]

Just use a proximity switch and forget touching anything ever again. No trigger, no adjustments. It wouldn't be difficult, but you'd have to learn where to place your finger until time to trip the switch.

Ed

[Reinhamre]

The mercury switch sounds like a great idea and maybe good for "Men in Black" type movies. Besides for this to work you'd have to guarantee the pistol in NOT held horizontally when not wanting to fire, i.e., transporting, storing, etc.

In a free pistol with electronic trigger there must be something to prevent it from going off when you close the breech. Remember that a trigger that goes off at 20 grams is very sensitive.
Hammerl 152i did not have anything to prevent a premature discharge. One had to be careful. A beam is one way but it is not the only way. A mercury switch will even be more safe. It will prevent accidental discharges when loading and when you are too high over the target.
When not shooting you should use the normal switch. I thought that was obvious without saying. Mercury switches were in a glass container in the old days.

Kent

[Mark Briggs]

Quite frankly, this whole discussion about the CM84E and its expensive battery is nothing more than a tempest in a teapot. Anybody with half a brain and a competitive spirit will always have a spare of each part that's likely to fail in their gun. (If you don't believe me then why did every TOZ come from the factory with spare springs?!?!?). Carry a spare battery. They're not THAT expensive. And my first battery lasted somewhere between 7,000 and 8,000 shots before I finally replaced it. The battery simply isn't an issue to anybody who's serious about shooting.

As for the comments about a free pistol needing a safety circuit to prevent the gun from going 'bang' when the breech is closed, let's get real! With the exception of the now-obsolete Walther free pistol, all free pistols use a mechanical sear to hold the firing pin in the "cocked" position against the force of a strong spring. This being the case, all but the Walther are subject to the same problems when it comes to loading. If you happen to provide sufficient shock in the right direction you may be able to dislodge the sear, allowing the firing pin to drop and the shot to fire, without any portion of the trigger mechanism having come into play. Likewise, any pistol which is not properly maintained will get dirty. Dirt in the area where the sear engages the firing pin may very well lead to improper sear engagement. When this happens the shot will often fire when the breech is closed. Been there, done that, even with the Morini CM84E.

No part of the trigger mechanism is responsible for either one of these instances of a shot going off as the breech is closed. It wouldn't matter if the trigger is mechanical or electrical - the shot will fire if the sear does not completely engage and hold the firing pin in the cocked position. There's no light beam or mercury switch that can cure these problems.

And for those who've been shooting for a while, is there anybody out there who's never seen the much-venerated TOZ35 go "bang" because the shooter adjusted the trigger for too little sear engagement? Yes, even the TOZ sometimes goes bang when we don't want it to.

[Reinhamre]

Mark Briggs,

What you say sounds OK to me. I have been electrified more then ten years. So even my FP 10 will go bang if not properly clean? Isch...

Kent