Almost every text on shooting supports front focus approach to sight. I totally agree that target focus is unacceptable, but my point is, what is the real and big problem with rear focus on sight?
Thanks in advance for answers.
Front or rear focus
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Step´ What´s
Ups, that a new one.
Nobody has asked this question before, to my knowledge.
It has been postulated, or axiomated, once and for all that focus "shall" be on the front sight.
But you have got a point. Any angular variation introduced by t misalignment of the rear sight would harm grooping as much (or more?)
But, if eye focuses at rear sight, the black sighting "bull" will appear even more blurred.
I welcome comments, and I will test this at the range soon.
Be friendly, keep smiling,
Stephen whatkinson
Nobody has asked this question before, to my knowledge.
It has been postulated, or axiomated, once and for all that focus "shall" be on the front sight.
But you have got a point. Any angular variation introduced by t misalignment of the rear sight would harm grooping as much (or more?)
But, if eye focuses at rear sight, the black sighting "bull" will appear even more blurred.
I welcome comments, and I will test this at the range soon.
Be friendly, keep smiling,
Stephen whatkinson
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Steve Swartz
Well, the way it was explained to me (both by top chooters coaches and also described in Yur'Yev's book)was . . .
1) Minor point; the angular displacement from a pivoting rear sight and fixed front sight (front sight focus) is actually less than the angular displacement from a pivoting front sight and fixed rear sight (some pictures might help).
2) More importantly; focusing on the a. smaller b. object (front sight) as opposed to a. larger b. gap (rear sights) leads to much tighter precision of alignment.
But, as is frequently pointed out in this group, Your Mileage May Vary. Try it- see what happens!
Steve Swartz
1) Minor point; the angular displacement from a pivoting rear sight and fixed front sight (front sight focus) is actually less than the angular displacement from a pivoting front sight and fixed rear sight (some pictures might help).
2) More importantly; focusing on the a. smaller b. object (front sight) as opposed to a. larger b. gap (rear sights) leads to much tighter precision of alignment.
But, as is frequently pointed out in this group, Your Mileage May Vary. Try it- see what happens!
Steve Swartz
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Step´ What´s
Angular misalignment of diffrent abjects.
Yes, I will test the "rear sight focus" procedure for slow fire and duell strings.
There is an old technique of avoiding focusing at the target during duell fire: By start of lift focus at rear sight, then during end of lift move focus to front sight. This can cure somebodys (bad) habit of focusing at target, and jerking shots badly off center.
But focus on rear sight at let-off for precision shooting? A bit odd, but why not?
And to Steve: Your point 2.: Who has proved beyond doubt that focusing on front blade is more accurate that focusing on the edged of the rear sight slot? Which is only a fraction wider that the front sight? Or is it your assumption only, Steve? I also dare to challenge your "knowledge" a bit, like others.
Encourage your fellow shooters.
Stephen Whatkinson
There is an old technique of avoiding focusing at the target during duell fire: By start of lift focus at rear sight, then during end of lift move focus to front sight. This can cure somebodys (bad) habit of focusing at target, and jerking shots badly off center.
But focus on rear sight at let-off for precision shooting? A bit odd, but why not?
And to Steve: Your point 2.: Who has proved beyond doubt that focusing on front blade is more accurate that focusing on the edged of the rear sight slot? Which is only a fraction wider that the front sight? Or is it your assumption only, Steve? I also dare to challenge your "knowledge" a bit, like others.
Encourage your fellow shooters.
Stephen Whatkinson
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Steve Swartz
Yur'Yev Competitive Shooting Chapter 8: Aiming note discussion of "diffusion" and "diffraction" combined with "irradiation." Also note that Yur'Yev contradicts the medical sholarship noted here; he *does* propose to keep both the front and rear sights in focus simultaneously (Page 187 of the "Gary Anderson" edition). He also provides several citations at the end of text leading to a body of Soviet research in this area.
If you have access to a research library with abstracting/key word searching, your answers can be found in articles related to "Vision" "Acuity" and "Accomodation."
The premise of front sight focus in point 2) is that a "void" will appear larger and indistinct relative to an "object;" an "object" will appear smaller and more distinct relative to a "void." Your front sight is an "object" farther away, your rear sights are a "void" closer to your eye.
Note here that it is not I who am attempting to contradict years of established wisdom from the great masters (coaches and athletes alike)!
I find myself in the odd (for me) position of having to support and defend the status quo. How the heck did that happen?
I must change my position immediately- We Should All Focus On The Inside Of Our Eyelids!
Steve Swartz
If you have access to a research library with abstracting/key word searching, your answers can be found in articles related to "Vision" "Acuity" and "Accomodation."
The premise of front sight focus in point 2) is that a "void" will appear larger and indistinct relative to an "object;" an "object" will appear smaller and more distinct relative to a "void." Your front sight is an "object" farther away, your rear sights are a "void" closer to your eye.
Note here that it is not I who am attempting to contradict years of established wisdom from the great masters (coaches and athletes alike)!
I find myself in the odd (for me) position of having to support and defend the status quo. How the heck did that happen?
I must change my position immediately- We Should All Focus On The Inside Of Our Eyelids!
Steve Swartz
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Steve Swartz
Ooops One More Thing
Forgot- your rear sight is a *lot* closer to your eye than the front sight (relatively speaking).
And I have tried to focus on front and rear sights simultaneously as Yur'Yev suggests, and have found it impossible to do (for my old tired eyes).
Again, try your method and see if it works for you. I gave it a very cursory try this morning and found it very difficult to align the sharp rear sight with a fuzzy front sight. Much more difficult to establish aiming area as well. But I am certain with training this would become easier to do.
Steve Swartz
And I have tried to focus on front and rear sights simultaneously as Yur'Yev suggests, and have found it impossible to do (for my old tired eyes).
Again, try your method and see if it works for you. I gave it a very cursory try this morning and found it very difficult to align the sharp rear sight with a fuzzy front sight. Much more difficult to establish aiming area as well. But I am certain with training this would become easier to do.
Steve Swartz
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mikeschroeder
- Posts: 488
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:56 am
- Location: Kansas
For what it is worth:
When I was just starting up shooting pistol I met this old timer at a camp. He was one of the coaches and had many years of experiance in Free pistol. He told me..."Focus on the front site and see the rear sight"
Steve this kind of goes along with what you were saying about try and focus on both.
When I was just starting up shooting pistol I met this old timer at a camp. He was one of the coaches and had many years of experiance in Free pistol. He told me..."Focus on the front site and see the rear sight"
Steve this kind of goes along with what you were saying about try and focus on both.
Front or rear focus
Friends,
I have been thinking about this question for some days now and here are the results:
1. Before you raise the hand, study the target and see how nice it locks. Anticipate all the steps necessary for successful shooting as described as follows. Breath normally! Calm yourself down and do not hurry up this process.
2. Raise your hand with the gun so that the rear sight will appear first. If the front sight does not come up on target, take your hand down and move your feet. Start from square one. See how nice the picture is, target and rear sight together. Enjoy the picture for one sec.
3. Rise the front end of the pistol the last bit so that the front sight will appear, NOW is the time for CONCENTRATION, something happens, the front sights is coming and all focus is there. Hold your breath. Make use of the short time you have. If it does not appear then your grip must change.
That was the easy part, now to the trigger. Just kidding, not finished that part, yet.
A. Make sure that you are fed up with watching the target before leaving part 1.
B. Many shooters aim above target. This has disadvantages, even in free pistol where you have time to do so, one tends to look at the number of the target or at least one feels insecure. The target will some how remain in focus. But do try it. Start well above. The long time you must stay concentrated makes you tired, but if in your youth….
C. Once you have spotted the front sights, do not even think of moving focus to the rear sight. The two corners of the rear sight will go up following the black on the target and result in a low hit. Then after some shooting you take the screw driver and adjust the sights, right? Later you do right and guess what? Too high! Then you are disturbed. Avoid this by staying away from the black, half way from bottom of the target or well into the black. In rapid fire and field shooting the latter is the obvious approach. Two inches under centre is OK for me in the rapid fire stage of a centre fire match.
D. Do not strain your eyes unnecessarily, linger on part one and think of the task ahead, repeat it again and let the body do it. Your brain and eyes do need new things all the time.
Many of you have other thoughts on these matters, but again, let us see what we disagree about. Have been at Camp Perry once, shooting, but I do not know anything about shooting in US.
Kent
I have been thinking about this question for some days now and here are the results:
1. Before you raise the hand, study the target and see how nice it locks. Anticipate all the steps necessary for successful shooting as described as follows. Breath normally! Calm yourself down and do not hurry up this process.
2. Raise your hand with the gun so that the rear sight will appear first. If the front sight does not come up on target, take your hand down and move your feet. Start from square one. See how nice the picture is, target and rear sight together. Enjoy the picture for one sec.
3. Rise the front end of the pistol the last bit so that the front sight will appear, NOW is the time for CONCENTRATION, something happens, the front sights is coming and all focus is there. Hold your breath. Make use of the short time you have. If it does not appear then your grip must change.
That was the easy part, now to the trigger. Just kidding, not finished that part, yet.
A. Make sure that you are fed up with watching the target before leaving part 1.
B. Many shooters aim above target. This has disadvantages, even in free pistol where you have time to do so, one tends to look at the number of the target or at least one feels insecure. The target will some how remain in focus. But do try it. Start well above. The long time you must stay concentrated makes you tired, but if in your youth….
C. Once you have spotted the front sights, do not even think of moving focus to the rear sight. The two corners of the rear sight will go up following the black on the target and result in a low hit. Then after some shooting you take the screw driver and adjust the sights, right? Later you do right and guess what? Too high! Then you are disturbed. Avoid this by staying away from the black, half way from bottom of the target or well into the black. In rapid fire and field shooting the latter is the obvious approach. Two inches under centre is OK for me in the rapid fire stage of a centre fire match.
D. Do not strain your eyes unnecessarily, linger on part one and think of the task ahead, repeat it again and let the body do it. Your brain and eyes do need new things all the time.
Many of you have other thoughts on these matters, but again, let us see what we disagree about. Have been at Camp Perry once, shooting, but I do not know anything about shooting in US.
Kent
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Cecil
I'm not a national champion on this yet; but it seems that it is easier to me to put a very "in focus" front sight within a "fuzzy" rear sight under a "fuzzy" target than any other way.
On the other hand I have had times, with certain vision changes and lenses, that I needed to focus my eyes slightly in front of the front sight in order to get the best "visual clarity" of the front sight possible. Others may have the same sort of situation in that looking at the rear sight may actually allow their vision to accomodate the front sight better as their eyes change the focus range.
Again, front sight focus is best for me. It allows me a place to "be" as I balance the rest of the shot process. It is my frame of reference for all the other parts of the shot.
Cecil
On the other hand I have had times, with certain vision changes and lenses, that I needed to focus my eyes slightly in front of the front sight in order to get the best "visual clarity" of the front sight possible. Others may have the same sort of situation in that looking at the rear sight may actually allow their vision to accomodate the front sight better as their eyes change the focus range.
Again, front sight focus is best for me. It allows me a place to "be" as I balance the rest of the shot process. It is my frame of reference for all the other parts of the shot.
Cecil
Re: Front or rear focus
Hello!
Every shooting level has its own "sighting picture":
- Beginner = it's better to concentrate on front sight (black round is disturbing consciousness and beginners have to "suppress" it)
- Experts = front sight + rear sight(subconscious)...
- Masters = front sight + rear sight(subconscious) + target(subconscious)...
Also:
many years ago, it was clarified that strong shooters of shooting sport have focus point somewhere of 1/3 of distance (~ 16m. for FP / or ~ 3m. for AP). Why? Don't forget that sighting has secondary importance! Supreme importance have: trigger/fixed stance/wrist/"autopilot"
I would say following:mcmoura wrote:what is the real and big problem with rear focus on sight?
Every shooting level has its own "sighting picture":
- Beginner = it's better to concentrate on front sight (black round is disturbing consciousness and beginners have to "suppress" it)
- Experts = front sight + rear sight(subconscious)...
- Masters = front sight + rear sight(subconscious) + target(subconscious)...
Also:
many years ago, it was clarified that strong shooters of shooting sport have focus point somewhere of 1/3 of distance (~ 16m. for FP / or ~ 3m. for AP). Why? Don't forget that sighting has secondary importance! Supreme importance have: trigger/fixed stance/wrist/"autopilot"
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Step´ What´s
Autopilot for shooting.
Thanks for your lingering posts, ruig.
"ruig" wrote:
I feel I could really benefit from an autopilot whenever tension increases during shooting. As when your score during a competition is well above your personal record, and triggering off the last shots of the last string in AP or FP becomes increasingly difficult....
Keep on posting, "ruig".
All best,
Stephen Whatkinson
"ruig" wrote:
I agree.many years ago, it was clarified that strong shooters of shooting sport have focus point somewhere of 1/3 of distance (~ 16m. for FP / or ~ 3m. for AP). Why? Don't forget that sighting has secondary importance! Supreme importance have: trigger/fixed stance/wrist/"autopilot".
I feel I could really benefit from an autopilot whenever tension increases during shooting. As when your score during a competition is well above your personal record, and triggering off the last shots of the last string in AP or FP becomes increasingly difficult....
Keep on posting, "ruig".
All best,
Stephen Whatkinson