Used Steyr or New Baikal?

[kleefurd]

Hello everyone, I would like to see what is the general opinion on a question that has me scratching my head the whole week. I am planning to get my first AP and there are two options here open for me, a used Steyr LP10 or a brand new IZ-46M at a relatively good price.

Which would you choose if you were me? I just started shooting a a few month ago, and I am torn in between these two.

Why the LP10 - Natural choice as this is a popular and reliable pistol that would serve me for years. But not knowing the condition of the gun and being a louder pistol, it might not be suitable for shooting at home.

Why the IZH-46M - Quieter pistol, no need for gas, new, low cost for a novice shooter, easy maintenance. Reliable pistol anyway. Just that eventually I will have to buy a LP-10 when I start shooting in more competitions.

Thanks for taking the poll.

[Bob LeDoux]

The IZH-46 is lower cost. Why spend extra money until you are certain this is "your cup of tea?"

[sparky]

The difference in noise is negligible. The LP-10 will never leave you lacking confidence in your equipment, as it is a world class gun. If you're willing and able to invest in a used LP-10, then the Izh-46M shouldn't even be considered (maybe the LP-1P, Morini M162ei, etc., but not the Izh-46M).
Fortunately, if you decide that air pistol isn't your cup of tea, both seem to hold their used prices pretty consistently.

[cbpersel]

I don`t think you will notice any noise difference between the two pistols. If the LP10 is in good condition and reasonably priced then I would choose it over the IZH-46. Why? Because 1) you will probably want to buy it in the future anyway and 2) if it is in good condition, etc. it will hold its value if you decide to sell it. That said . . . the IZH is a wonderful pistol and is capable of very high scores. It just doesn`t have the fit-and-finish and world-class shooting capacity of the Steyr.

[emotepix]

I know this thread is about the relative merits of two kinds of equipment - a decent, cheap gun against a used expensive one.

But isn't it really about attitude and approach?

I remember a (friendly) competition a few years back at a local PTO where the winner used an IZH46M, and bested all the expensive guns.

Was there an immeidate run to sell of those guns and just buy the IZH's? What do you think?

How 'bout this question - a little more to the point - do you think the person who won that match was in any way, shape or form, a beginner?

I confess, I usually shop on ebay, or in the local recycler/classified sections for the stuff I need.

However, I've been a professional in the fields I buy in (cameras, audio equipment and the like) for well over 20 years. I know what I want, if it's good or not, how much it should cost, and when I'm getting a deal or not.

When you're starting out, shooting or anything else, it's hard to justify spending a lot right at the start, just to find out whether you're any good at it or not, or even if you like it or not.

However, it's more important, IMHO, to give it your best shot (pun intended) from the get-go, and having a world class piece of equipment in your hands is like taking a photograph with a Leica - you know that one thing's for sure - if things don't turn out, it sure ain't the equipment that's not up to scratch.

For me and my LP10P, things turned out just fine. Would I have been a better shooter now if I hadn't gone the gamut of cheap guns first?

Probably. But then again I'm an equipment junkie too, so that's part of the pleasure of the sport, for me at lesat.

One thing I can tell you, though. All those cheap guns I had are now history (i.e. sold) and I took a loss on every one of them, plus bought the LP10P new after all of that.

So maybe I'm a little worse off as a shooter by not just going with the Steyr from the start. That point is debatable, but this is not: I can tell you that the little excusrion I took through IZH/TAU/FAS etc land cost me upwards of $500 more.

For me, that was an education, so money well spent. I now know how to tell good from bad, what is meant by "good balance", "repeatable trigger" and all those other Very Important Phrases (especially to a beginner!), and how important they really are to getting that pellet into the center ring. Not to say that those guns are bad, they aren't. But I finally learned what I like, and what's best for me, in this sport, here and now.

Finally, let me quote one of the legendary shooters of our time when he says "learn it the hard way. Or better yet, learn it the easy way. Buy the best equipment there is, and the best you can afford." Then stop worrying about it and get on with the job at hand - scoring 10s.

There are many industries where the price of a product is inflated, so just because something costs a lot doesn't necessarily mean it's good.

I don't think our sport is big enough to support that kind of mass-market orientation, so (especially with the help of groups such as this) equipment is a fairly known quantity.

I know that innovation is in the spirit of competition, and finding a new way to do old things can lead to victory, but this isn't CART or NASCAR racing, where equipment innovation is everything.

This is shooting, plain and simple.

Do you know that almost every new shooter has asked your same question before?

HTH
Cheers
Chris

[kleefurd]

You know you guys are the reason why I love the shooting community? Thank you so much for taking the time to reply and give me your perspective to why I should get the LP-10. And I will.

If I were to get the IZH-46M, it will most likely be for the sake of adding another pistol to the collection.

A deepfelt "thank you" to everyone who wrote your piece. I really appreciate the perspective. In fact, I will be saving up a while longer and get one LP-10 brand new. At the meantime, I will survive on club pistols first...

[emotepix]

Just noticed where you're posting from. I'm originally from HKG myself, and can add something to the post - if you have an LP10P then you can use SCUBA air. Bunn's or a local dive shop should be able to set you up with a small tank that's been de-certified for a very little amount of money, and if you mark on the tank very clearly AIR PISTOL USE ONLY - NOT FOR DIVING then you bypass any of the licensing legalities that may exist. They can then refull the air for you for very little (I seem to recall that Bunn's used to do it for me at HK$10 (US$1.25) per tankful, which lasted me almost six months, shooting 40-60 shots a day, five days a week - certainly the least expensive way to put bullets downrange!).
Cheers!

[kleefurd]

Just noticed where you're posting from. I'm originally from HKG myself, and can add something to the post - if you have an LP10P then you can use SCUBA air. Bunn's or a local dive shop should be able to set you up with a small tank that's been de-certified for a very little amount of money, and if you mark on the tank very clearly AIR PISTOL USE ONLY - NOT FOR DIVING then you bypass any of the licensing legalities that may exist. They can then refull the air for you for very little (I seem to recall that Bunn's used to do it for me at HK$10 (US$1.25) per tankful, which lasted me almost six months, shooting 40-60 shots a day, five days a week - certainly the least expensive way to put bullets downrange!).
Cheers!

Thank you for the tip... That would save me a lot of money surely. Can I ask where were you shooting when you were in Hong Kong?

[JohnL]

I agree with Chris' analysis for the most part. However, I don't think that it is obvious that one should start with a Steyer or a Leica, even though in the long run it would be cheaper (assumimg that you know that you are going all the way to the top-of-the-line equipment). The value of the more inexpensive equipment is first in the contrast it will provide, secondly that you a can afford to tinker with them. What I mean by that is that when you are learning a new field - be it pistol shooting or photography, it is valuable to see how different technical approaches affect the final outcome of the process and how they relate to you. With the Baikal you can start using the grip as is and then take out the Dremel tool and the putty and start changing it to your liking. You can take the gun appart and see how it is constructed. All this will give you a much deeper understanding of what is important than if a "perfect" solution is handed to you on a platter. When you finally buy the Steyer or the Leica you will be able to enjoy it so much more because you have knowledge and you will be able to appreciate the finer points. I think that is what you are buying with the extra money you spend on the road to the top-of-the-line gun.

[DavidO.]

If the Steyr is in good shape and you can actually shoot it before buying, get the Steyr. It all depends on the price. The baikal runs around 280. If the Steyr is in good shape and only runs two hundred more, get the Steyr.

[Helen]

Steyr all the way, unless it's been junked

[Jimmy B.]

Go for the Steyr. You can always adjust the velocity lower and pad your target trap for very quiet use in home.

[kleefurd]

Go for the Steyr. You can always adjust the velocity lower and pad your target trap for very quiet use in home.

Actually, I have designed and made three prototype target traps for home use. They are very small and efficient. Might post the pictures if you guys are interested.