Need Target Changer Help

Mark Briggs · Post by **Mark Briggs** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:11 pm

Hi Folks,

I need your help. (Some folks say I need professional help, but let's not discuss that here... *grin*)

Our club is considering the potential purchase of electric target changers for air pistol and air rifle, at a minimum, and perhaps other disciplines too. We have a 20 yard indoor range with a full backstop, so we don't need to focus much thought on trapping pellets or bullets - this isn't a problem. We have very little space available for storage of target systems so any kind of clothesline-style target retrieval system is pretty much out of the question as the gear required to support the "clothesline" under tension takes up too much storage space. Keep in mind this range is also used for a variety of other games like smallbore rifle, IPSC handgun, security guard training, etc. This being the case, we need target changers which are small, portable, and prefereably cheap.

Now you can probably see why I need your help. Sius Ascor systems would be perfect, except they're waaaaay out of our price range. I know Gehmann makes an electric target changer which feeds targets from a hopper at the top of the unit, but this is again pretty expensive (it works very well for both air rifle and pistol targets - very slick indeed). We obviously would prefer target changers which would allow us to continue to use single targets (as opposed to "targets on a roll" like the older Gehmann motorized .22 target changers used.

Are there any other options out there? Anything commercially available? Any plans for a reliable home-made unit? Anything?

We're now at a point where we are developing a hardcore group of ISSF-style shooters. Unfortunately we're being held back from offering these shooters realistic match conditions because of our lack of facilities. Your assistance in helping us overcome this hurdle is greatly appreciated.

Mark.

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:56 am

To me one of the big advantages of electronic target changers is to spot the individual shots, i.e. advance and return the card after each shot. Any other system is (IMHO) only slightly better than having nothing at all - you could for example mount two cards side by side and manually change after 10 shots (shot spotting with a scope).

You could consider having a rolling bank of targets and changers, but each end would have to be fairly substantial so as to enable it to be firmly fixed. That would also still require re-stringing each time.

Rob.

Mark Briggs · Post by **Mark Briggs** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:28 am

Rob,

Thanks for your comments. We're definitely not in a position to have any form of returning target system as they entail far too much heavy and bulky hardware. We simply don't have space to store this equipment during the times the range is used for other non-ISSF shooting (the other 4 days of the week). The Gehmann 195 target changer requires the shooter to spot his shots using a spotting scope, which some feel to be a disadvantage. Our shooting positions are already equipped with spotting scopes so it's not a problem for us. The real advantage of the Gehmann 195 is the ability for the shooter to shoot a complete match without having to shift his feet, his body, or his point of aim.

At the moment we shoot 3 shots per target and post 4-5 targets per shooter at a time. This means we run 15-20 minute relays and have to walk down to the target stands to change targets at the end of each relay. And it also means the shooter has to adjust to a new target position every three shots. This is nothing like a real match and our scores reflect the poor equipment our range has to offer. This is why we're looking for a better alternative.

Mark.

Ed Hall · Post by **Ed Hall** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:39 am

Have you considered an overhead permanent retrieval system to be available to all range users? You could build a "home made" track system with a rail mounted on the ceiling and cable with motor (or hand crank to save even more) to send and retrieve the target holder. Then you can make cardboard backers to be used for different disciplines. You could use things like small pieces of rubber weather stripping on the cardboard to secure the targets so you wouldn't have to staple or tack them onto the cardboard.

Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.geocities.com/ed_ka2fwj/
"The glass is full - part liquid, part air!"

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:03 pm

Mark,
I don't believe the position change has any affect on scores. In any match you will find all the shooters break their routine and rest every now and again, heck you have 1 3/4 hours to play with. I rest every 20 shots or so and thats about fine for me, it appears most other shooters rest about the same amount.

I sometimes shoot an outdoors 10M comp where cards are grouped together as a bank of 4. Scores are pretty much identical to those shot indoors on 'proper' target changers so don't think a more permanent set up will dramatically up the scores because in my experience it wont.

I will admit that it is best to shoot 'properly' and conform to ISSF rulings where possible but sometimes it isn't.

Rob.

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:38 pm

Mark,

I agree it is nice to try and get match conditions simulated but it will be hard to do. As I am sure you know every range is different.

From the number of targets you are able to post it sounds like you have enough for your shooters to progress and train. From talking to Erich B. about training and several other top shooters try and get away from shooting any number of shots per bull that ends in 5 or 0. This way you can get away from focusing on score and more on performance and "The Basics". I have watched some of out top rifle and pistol shooters train using one bull and shot for an hour or more into it.

A good training exercise is to take a marker and black out all the scoring rings in the black or even cut out the 8, 9 and 10 ring.

Every other week or so you can hold a training match and make it a match. If you are dealing with kids have some small prizes like an ice cream cone for first place or something like that.

Returning targets are nice to haves but not necessary to get the top scores.

I used to shoot entire prone matches on one 12 bull target mostly for the conditioning not for the score.

Mark Briggs · Post by **Mark Briggs** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:21 am

Stan - that's exactly what we're looking for. Obviously it would be better if it didn't use "proprietary" target rolls, but this is a good start. Sounds like I need to call them to find out more info. Thanks for the tip!

Mark Briggs · Post by **Mark Briggs** » Thu Sep 02, 2004 3:01 pm

Hmmm... Guess I need to update my profile info. Since I'm in Ontario, Canada, it might be a tad difficult to get USAS to sanction an event at our club. But you're more than welcome to attend all of our Shooting Federation of Canada-registered matches! The next one is September 15th!

john v · Post by **john v** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:45 pm

Mark-
The NRA's Jr. Air Gun Team Championship & Training Summit used the target systems in the 2004 championship. They worked very well and our plan is to continue to use them in future events. At least two national records were set at the event. We are also looking forward to a target system for Air Pistol.