As long as i was looking into my old emails tonight to the Feinwerkbau company for some info that might locate a gripmaker for the Model 65, i thought i would repost some historical info from some other emails of mine in 2001.
They do give some production dating and approximate production numbers for the Model 65, and related Model 80 and Model 90.
Here's a bit of a mystery:.........
.....in my last email shown below where i was inquiring as to the date of production for my mint and early Model 65 , serial # 5324 , their answer has always confused me and seemed way off.
For my pistol to have been 9 years into the production range and only be up to serial # 5324 doesn't make any sense, considering they made about 145,000 of the Model 65 over 33 years. (an average of 4,394 per year).
So either the early years saw VERY limited production with a huge pickup in later years at the height of it's popularity.......or Feinwerkbau made a mistake on dating this one. Especially so since a recent Model 65 listed on ebay was purchased in 1978 (seller had the original reciept), yet from an e-mail to him he revealed the number to be serial # 96,260
Are we to believe it took 9 years to get to serial # 5324, and only 4 more years to get to serial # 92,260 ? Hmmmmm???
I will assume Feinwerkbau goofed and my mint example was more likely made in the 1st or 2nd year of production....or 1965 or 1966.
Anyway, here is the data:
===============================================
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:42:01 +0200
From: info@feinwerkbau.de Add to Address Book
To: "Joseph Tousignant" <joejeweler@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Feinwerkbau model 80 production figures?
e-mail 20.06.01 VK-RA-Fe
von / from / de
Feinwerkbau Westinger & Altenburger GmbH
Neckarstr. 43
78727 Oberndorf / Germany
Tel.: 07423 / 814-0
Fax: 07423 / 814-200
e-mail: info@feinwerkbau.de
an / to / à
Joseph Tousignant
c/o Jewels
USA
FEINWERKBAU air-pistols
Dear Sir,
We refer to your e-mail dated 13 June 2001 and
concerning the FEINWERKBAU air-pistols we inform
you as follows:
The FEINWERKBAU air-pistols Mod. 65 were produced
from 1965 - 1998, the air-pistols Mod. 80 from
1977 - 1986 and the air-pistols Mod. 90 from 1982
- 1992.
We hope that we could help you with these
production figures. Unfortunately we cannot
publish further details.
Best regards,
F e i n w e r k b a u
Westinger & Altenburger GmbH
P.S. Our factory will be closed for holidays from
03 - 20 August 2001.
===============================================
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:22:53 +0200
From: info@feinwerkbau.de Add to Address Book
To: "Joseph Tousignant" <joejeweler@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Feinwerkbau model 80 production figures? Why not?
e-mail 25.06.01 VK-RA-Fe
von / from / de
Feinwerkbau Westinger & Altenburger GmbH
Neckarstr. 43
78727 Oberndorf / Germany
Tel.: 07423 / 814-0
Fax: 07423 / 814-200
e-mail: info@feinwerkbau.de
an / to / à
Joseph Tousignant
FEINWERKBAU air-pistols
Dear Sir,
We refer to your e-mail dated 20 June 2001 and we
thank you for the kind contents of that e-mail. Of
course, we always do the utmost in order to
satisfy our customers as far as possible, even if
this takes longer investigations in our archives.
For your information:
>From air-pistol Mod. 65 we produced approx.
145.000 pcs.,
from air-pistol Mod. 80 approx. 48.000 pcs.,
from air-pistol Mod. 90 approx. 20.000 pcs.
Hoping that we could now give sufficient
informations,
best regards,
F e i n w e r k b a u
Westinger & Altenburger GmbH
===============================================
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 13:19:12 +0200
From: info@feinwerkbau.de Add to Address Book
To: "Joseph Tousignant" <joejeweler@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Date of production for "mint" model 65, serial #5324
e-mail 03.07.01 VK-RA-Fe
von / from / de
Feinwerkbau Westinger & Altenburger GmbH
Neckarstr. 43
78727 Oberndorf / Germany
Tel.: 07423 / 814-0
Fax: 07423 / 814-200
e-mail: info@feinwerkbau.de
an / to / à
Joseph Tousignant
USA
FEINWERKBAU air-pistol Mod. 65
Dear Sir,
We refer to your e-mail dated 30 June 2001.
Concerning your FEINWERKBAU air-pistol Mod. 65,
serial no. 5324, we inform you that this has been
produced in the year
of 1974.
Best regards,
F e i n w e r k b a u
Westinger & Altenburger GmbH
===============================================
FWB Models 65, 80, and 90 Historical Data, & a Mystery?
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joejeweler
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 12:38 pm
-
Ulrich Eichstädt
- Posts: 187
- Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:06 am
- Location: Dortmund
Before 1972, when the first (after-war) german gun law was introduced, it wasn't necessary to number airguns like firearms (some manufacturers did, others didn't). Also the early FWB pistols (before 1972/73) don't carry the "F in pentagram"-sign, which is required now to show that an airgun has less than 7,5 joule muzzle energy (around 5.5 ft/lbs, only in germany).
Although it wasn't really necessary to mark the "F" on air pistols (and air rifles) for export, it is possible that due to the more easy way of manufacturing that all models are marked.
So IF you have a FWB 65 with an F, it was made after 1973 (the year the F-mark was used first, even though it was introduced before)
The quote "RA" in the e-mail's head stands for Rainer Altenburger, the sales manager (and co-owner), who surely knows what he says (but of course he could make mistakes, anyway, too...)
Although it wasn't really necessary to mark the "F" on air pistols (and air rifles) for export, it is possible that due to the more easy way of manufacturing that all models are marked.
So IF you have a FWB 65 with an F, it was made after 1973 (the year the F-mark was used first, even though it was introduced before)
The quote "RA" in the e-mail's head stands for Rainer Altenburger, the sales manager (and co-owner), who surely knows what he says (but of course he could make mistakes, anyway, too...)
-
joejeweler
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 12:38 pm
Thank you, Ulrich.....for some explaination as to my inquiry!
Your's is the first response i have recieved on this , and in fact does seem to show that Feinwerkbau had made a mistake in placing the year of manufacture of my "mint" serial # 5324 pistol at 1974.
While i can see the "F" surrounded by a 5 sided pentagram on all of my other 5 Model 65 pistols (just after the .177 mark near the hindge of the cocking lever).......it is NOT anywhere on the pistol in question! According to your comments this would place the date of manufacture at no later than 1972, so that the 1974 date i was originally given must be in error.
Could there be any other explaination that would explain this? At some point i might contact the factory again, to try and get some further explaination.
Your incite was most helpful, however.......and for that i thank you again.
regards,
Joseph Tousignant
Your's is the first response i have recieved on this , and in fact does seem to show that Feinwerkbau had made a mistake in placing the year of manufacture of my "mint" serial # 5324 pistol at 1974.
While i can see the "F" surrounded by a 5 sided pentagram on all of my other 5 Model 65 pistols (just after the .177 mark near the hindge of the cocking lever).......it is NOT anywhere on the pistol in question! According to your comments this would place the date of manufacture at no later than 1972, so that the 1974 date i was originally given must be in error.
Could there be any other explaination that would explain this? At some point i might contact the factory again, to try and get some further explaination.
Your incite was most helpful, however.......and for that i thank you again.
regards,
Joseph Tousignant
Ulrich Eichstädt wrote:Before 1972, when the first (after-war) german gun law was introduced, it wasn't necessary to number airguns like firearms (some manufacturers did, others didn't). Also the early FWB pistols (before 1972/73) don't carry the "F in pentagram"-sign, which is required now to show that an airgun has less than 7,5 joule muzzle energy (around 5.5 ft/lbs, only in germany).
Although it wasn't really necessary to mark the "F" on air pistols (and air rifles) for export, it is possible that due to the more easy way of manufacturing that all models are marked.
So IF you have a FWB 65 with an F, it was made after 1973 (the year the F-mark was used first, even though it was introduced before)
The quote "RA" in the e-mail's head stands for Rainer Altenburger, the sales manager (and co-owner), who surely knows what he says (but of course he could make mistakes, anyway, too...)
FWB 65 Grip
We have FWB 65 grips allways in stock because we are official FWB suppliers for grips. The grip cost 165$ for the right adjustable and 180$ for the left adjustable + shipping. If you want contact us at:
Morini Competition Arm S.A.
Via ai Gelsi 11
CH-6930 Bedano
Tel. +41 91 9453944
E-Mail morini@bluewin.ch
Morini Competition Arm S.A.
Via ai Gelsi 11
CH-6930 Bedano
Tel. +41 91 9453944
E-Mail morini@bluewin.ch
-
joejeweler
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 12:38 pm
"Mystery" resolved re: FWB Model 65 serial # 5324
Well, i just recieved an email from Feinwerkbau......and the "mystery" has been resolved. My Model 65 serial # 5324 was manufactured in October 1967 according to the email below........and not in 1974 as originally stated.
Now it all makes sense, and i thank the factory for rechecking their records.
Joe T
===============================================
From: "Firma Feinwerkbau" <info@feinwerkbau.de> Add to Address Book
To: "Joseph Tousignant" <joejeweler@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: A "dating" descrepency Model 65 # 5324 , and another request....
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:27:45 +0200
e-mail 02.06.2004 VK-RA/ko
von / from / de
Feinwerkbau Westinger & Altenburger GmbH
Neckarstr. 43
78727 Oberndorf / Germany
Tel.: 07423 / 814-0
Fax: 07423 / 814-223
e-mail: info@feinwerkbau.de
an / to / à
Joseph Tousignant
303 Hulett Street
Schenectady, New York 12307
USA
Feinwerkbau air pistol model 65
Dear Mr. Tousignant,
We refer to your email dated 30th May 2004 and would like to inform you
as
follows about manufacturing dates:
# 7453 has been manufactured in June 1968
# 72294 has been manufactured in June 1975
# 107 945 has been manufactured in September 1980
# 132 326 has been manufactured in October 1985
# 141 456 has been manufactured in February 1989
# 5324 has been manufactured in October 1967
Please apologise for the discrepancy of # 5324!
Hoping that we could help you in this matter, we remain in the meantime
with
best regards,
F e i n w e r k b a u
Westinger & Altenburger GmbH
Sales Department
Now it all makes sense, and i thank the factory for rechecking their records.
Joe T
===============================================
From: "Firma Feinwerkbau" <info@feinwerkbau.de> Add to Address Book
To: "Joseph Tousignant" <joejeweler@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: A "dating" descrepency Model 65 # 5324 , and another request....
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:27:45 +0200
e-mail 02.06.2004 VK-RA/ko
von / from / de
Feinwerkbau Westinger & Altenburger GmbH
Neckarstr. 43
78727 Oberndorf / Germany
Tel.: 07423 / 814-0
Fax: 07423 / 814-223
e-mail: info@feinwerkbau.de
an / to / à
Joseph Tousignant
303 Hulett Street
Schenectady, New York 12307
USA
Feinwerkbau air pistol model 65
Dear Mr. Tousignant,
We refer to your email dated 30th May 2004 and would like to inform you
as
follows about manufacturing dates:
# 7453 has been manufactured in June 1968
# 72294 has been manufactured in June 1975
# 107 945 has been manufactured in September 1980
# 132 326 has been manufactured in October 1985
# 141 456 has been manufactured in February 1989
# 5324 has been manufactured in October 1967
Please apologise for the discrepancy of # 5324!
Hoping that we could help you in this matter, we remain in the meantime
with
best regards,
F e i n w e r k b a u
Westinger & Altenburger GmbH
Sales Department
Serial Numbers
This may or may not help; but, here goes...
Some years ago a fellow shooter had a TOZ free pistol serial number 0001. As a Canadian he had to declare the pistol upon entering the USA. The serial number caused quite a tiff with the local gendarmarie. Turns out that TOZ only used four digits for the serial numbers. When they got to 9999, the next number would be 0001, again.
I would like to know if this helps and if, indeed, the above is true.
With kind regards,
Dave Wilson
Shooter and fabricator of fine 32 barrels.
Some years ago a fellow shooter had a TOZ free pistol serial number 0001. As a Canadian he had to declare the pistol upon entering the USA. The serial number caused quite a tiff with the local gendarmarie. Turns out that TOZ only used four digits for the serial numbers. When they got to 9999, the next number would be 0001, again.
I would like to know if this helps and if, indeed, the above is true.
With kind regards,
Dave Wilson
Shooter and fabricator of fine 32 barrels.
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TomTom