Hello,
I have been practicing 10m ap shooting for two weeks now.
This may be hard to explain but let's try.
When aiming, my thinking has been the following: line up the sights and try to hit the middle, which I think has worked quite well so far. I hit rarely on white and I can regularly shoot more than 90 score per target. Here are today's 60 shots. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bIxhM2 ... p=drivesdk
After 60 shots, I thought of trying a different way of thinking and shot a couple of targets so that I aligned the sights and focused only on the sights and fired without thinking at all about hitting the middle because the hit shouldn't matter, just hold and shoot without focusing on the black (in the same style as I do in dry shooting). It went very well for the first 9 shots but the last one went white when I started thinking about hitting the middle because the result was going to be good. For the second target, I tried the same way again, but I again noticed that I was paying more attention to hitting the middle, and grouping wasn't any good. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bHa3FK ... p=drivesdk
If I have understood correctly, this is probably the right aiming and shooting mindset, the way to achieve the best results in the long run? How to get the mindset turned to this with every shot and ignore hitting the black/center?
I know I'm a beginner and with practice you improve, but I believe that some may have experienced the same thing when they started.
Aiming mindset
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Re: Aiming mindset
The big mistake was thinking. The shot process should be like a computer program, once started it just happens.
Try taking away the urge to hit the middle, shoot on the back of the target (blank target) to train the process.
Try taking away the urge to hit the middle, shoot on the back of the target (blank target) to train the process.
Re: Aiming mindset
Can you call your shots accurately? That should allow you to separate aiming errors from other technique problems. It will also let you know when you have lost focus on your sights, because it's impossible to call your shots if you aren't focused on sight alignment.
You shouldn't be thinking about the results ("hitting the middle") at all. Your concentration should be on the portions of your shot process that will result in a good shot. Once you've got the basic down (which it looks like you do), that usually reduces to keeping your sights aligned, and releasing the shot without disturbing the sight alignment (trigger control).
Ideally, eventually you want both activities to be committed to "muscle memory", and you won't need to think about them at all. Most shooters find that they can largely commit sight alignment or trigger control to muscle memory, and that need to apply some concentration to executing the the other properly.
You shouldn't be thinking about the results ("hitting the middle") at all. Your concentration should be on the portions of your shot process that will result in a good shot. Once you've got the basic down (which it looks like you do), that usually reduces to keeping your sights aligned, and releasing the shot without disturbing the sight alignment (trigger control).
Ideally, eventually you want both activities to be committed to "muscle memory", and you won't need to think about them at all. Most shooters find that they can largely commit sight alignment or trigger control to muscle memory, and that need to apply some concentration to executing the the other properly.
Re: Aiming mindset
^^
I've read about shooting at an blank target but I feel like there's nothing to aim for, so how can you get a good grouping, so thats why I haven't tried it. But i will try it next time.
^
I can't see individual shots accurately because I don't have spotting scope or similar, so I can't call shots accurately. Usually I call "good shot", "bad shot" good ones hit at least 9 but also bad ones might be really good hits or they are sevens.
There will always be a slight natural movement when aiming. Should you be aiming on the "aiming area" or "aiming point"? If I try to aim at a certain point that I know will hit the middle, I often lose focus because I start chasing this point, but the hit may be still quite good most of the time.
If I aim at the aiming area then I allow a little movement and the shot feels better, the focus is better but there are clearly worse ones among the good hits. I feel that I can call these shots accurately but can't be sure because I don't see the hits.
I've read about shooting at an blank target but I feel like there's nothing to aim for, so how can you get a good grouping, so thats why I haven't tried it. But i will try it next time.
^
I can't see individual shots accurately because I don't have spotting scope or similar, so I can't call shots accurately. Usually I call "good shot", "bad shot" good ones hit at least 9 but also bad ones might be really good hits or they are sevens.
There will always be a slight natural movement when aiming. Should you be aiming on the "aiming area" or "aiming point"? If I try to aim at a certain point that I know will hit the middle, I often lose focus because I start chasing this point, but the hit may be still quite good most of the time.
If I aim at the aiming area then I allow a little movement and the shot feels better, the focus is better but there are clearly worse ones among the good hits. I feel that I can call these shots accurately but can't be sure because I don't see the hits.
Re: Aiming mindset
IF you have a spotting scope, you can learn something from EVERY shot. Without knowing which shots are on-call, and which ones aren't, you are handicapping yourself a LOT.
There are all sorts of inexpensive options, including an old webcam.
There are all sorts of inexpensive options, including an old webcam.
Re: Aiming mindset
You grouping looks quite good, which means the process is suitable for you, arc of movement is quite small. 1 target of more scattering does not mean the process is not good.
Another thing matters here is duration, how long do you take to aim on usually? How long is the trigger pull time?
Another thing matters here is duration, how long do you take to aim on usually? How long is the trigger pull time?
Re: Aiming mindset
It is an aiming area, not a spot. Nobody can hold the pistol perfectly still. Watch the video highlights of the ISSF and Olympic games and look at the muzzles.
Trying to shoot when you reach a certain point will often lead to jerking and snatching. Your connection between the brain and the finger is not immediate. It will take about 0.2 seconds, and guns move a lot in that time.
It is hard to let go of the illusion of control, but your triggering and your scores will improve.
A good shot does not depend on the score, but on your perception of your shot process. You have to practice calling the score after releasing the shot. If it does not match your appreciation it could mean you were distracted.
Trying to shoot when you reach a certain point will often lead to jerking and snatching. Your connection between the brain and the finger is not immediate. It will take about 0.2 seconds, and guns move a lot in that time.
It is hard to let go of the illusion of control, but your triggering and your scores will improve.
A good shot does not depend on the score, but on your perception of your shot process. You have to practice calling the score after releasing the shot. If it does not match your appreciation it could mean you were distracted.
Ramon
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atomicgale
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Re: Aiming mindset
Correlate "Aiming" to the kinetic action of someone who types 80+ words-per-minute on a keyboard.
As you type, you don't "think" about which keys to hit; it just "happens."
The "Kineto-graphic-memory" of the physical action of "Aiming," the process then the scoring shot simply occurs.
Recall the movie line from the recent TOP GUN:
"Don't Think."
"Just Do."
Re: Aiming mindset
I would like your advice again.
I have now regularly shot at blank targets, practiced the shooting process, called shots, etc.
Here are today's targets, https://drive.google.com/file/d/13m-SYk ... p=drivesdk. Each target was shot after a blank target or a target with a horizontal or vertical line.
My aiming hold has been sub 5 because it felt best at the beginning when I started shooting. Between the sight and the black area there is a approximately the same height gap as the gap between front and rear sight when aiming.
I shoot regularly good targets like today targets 1 and 2 but lets say about 60% of targets are worse (score about 85-88) like todays targets 2 and 3. In these worse targets I often find myself trying to aim higher (sub 6 hold) in first shots and the hit goes up, I aiming lower the next one but the hit may go too low and overall the grouping is worse because "I lost my aiming area".
Every time I shoot at blank targets, the elevation of the group is 8-10mm too high according to the target scan.
My question is, would it be worthwhile to change the aiming area to sub 6 hold (as usually is recommended) and correct the sight downwards, because i think that my hand movement has reduced and its more easier to bring sights closer to black area, or keep the sub 5 hold because its works when i can keep the process together and continue training?
I have now regularly shot at blank targets, practiced the shooting process, called shots, etc.
Here are today's targets, https://drive.google.com/file/d/13m-SYk ... p=drivesdk. Each target was shot after a blank target or a target with a horizontal or vertical line.
My aiming hold has been sub 5 because it felt best at the beginning when I started shooting. Between the sight and the black area there is a approximately the same height gap as the gap between front and rear sight when aiming.
I shoot regularly good targets like today targets 1 and 2 but lets say about 60% of targets are worse (score about 85-88) like todays targets 2 and 3. In these worse targets I often find myself trying to aim higher (sub 6 hold) in first shots and the hit goes up, I aiming lower the next one but the hit may go too low and overall the grouping is worse because "I lost my aiming area".
Every time I shoot at blank targets, the elevation of the group is 8-10mm too high according to the target scan.
My question is, would it be worthwhile to change the aiming area to sub 6 hold (as usually is recommended) and correct the sight downwards, because i think that my hand movement has reduced and its more easier to bring sights closer to black area, or keep the sub 5 hold because its works when i can keep the process together and continue training?
Re: Aiming mindset
By sub 5 you mean that your aiming area is offset to the right or the approximate height ?
Don't score your white targets, focus on the process without expectation of any kind of result. White targets allow you to focus better as you don't have to coordinate with the position under the target, and also because not having a score triggering an emotional response you can perform your shot better. It is your evaluation of the quality of the score that matters , not the impact
Don't score your white targets, focus on the process without expectation of any kind of result. White targets allow you to focus better as you don't have to coordinate with the position under the target, and also because not having a score triggering an emotional response you can perform your shot better. It is your evaluation of the quality of the score that matters , not the impact
Ramon
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Re: Aiming mindset
I have understood that sub 6 means that the sights are aligned with 6 rings and sub 5 I meant that I align the sights with 5 rings. But I may have misunderstood what sub 6 means. Sights are always centered horizontally.
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PirateJohn
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Re: Aiming mindset
"Sub 6" means below 6 o'clock
Re: Aiming mindset
"sub 6" is used to differentiate it from the traditional "6 o'clock" hold, where the top of the sights are even with the bottom of the black.
"sub 6" is also known as "area hold". The idea is that everyone has a certain amount of wobble, and trying to have a super precise aiming point encourages looking at the target (very bad), and trying to time your shot for when everything is perfect (very bad).
Accept your natural wobble, and concentrate on keeping the sights aligned and not disturbing the sight alignment in the process of firing the shot. If you can do that consistently, you will be amazed at how good your scores are.
"sub 6" is also known as "area hold". The idea is that everyone has a certain amount of wobble, and trying to have a super precise aiming point encourages looking at the target (very bad), and trying to time your shot for when everything is perfect (very bad).
Accept your natural wobble, and concentrate on keeping the sights aligned and not disturbing the sight alignment in the process of firing the shot. If you can do that consistently, you will be amazed at how good your scores are.