How to obtain such a curve in air rifle 10m??

[loadcc]

How to obtain such a shooting curve？ aim at a point above the center, hold breath, stabilize, exhale, aim down, aim at the center, stabilize, and shoot. Is that so?
hope to get any suggestion from u.

[KabalMSU]

Training + clothes.

[Thauglor]

For standing, is there anywhere a comparison of score with and without the jacket/pants?

[loadcc]

For standing, is there anywhere a comparison of score with and without the jacket/pants?

average 8.3-8.5 without jacket&pants, 9.4-9.8 with jacket&pants (no shoes) after 20 days training of 1.5 hours perday.

[loadcc]

my curve,what's the problem and how to train.??

[KabalMSU]

You force the muzzle into the middle - your trace comes from top right and recoil goes there then. The trace in your first post is defined by gravity only.

Post photos of your stance here.

[jcerne]

How do shooters who make traces like the one in Post #1 typically lower their aim onto the 10 ring? Is it done by breathing out until the sights are centered on the bull or does one let the elbow of the arm supporting the rifle forend settle deeper onto the hip until sights are aligned? I've looked online and in several books and couldn't find an answer on how to make the final approach to the bull.

I found an interesting article by a well-known high power rifle shooter, David Tubb, who approaches the bull from the left since the vertical position is more fixed than the lateral one. I realize that this is quite different from what smallbore/AR shooters do.

https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editori ... 2906/84489

[ZD]

I can't say I ever made it to that level when I use to shoot competitive smallbore and air rifle. However, I can tell you something that worked for me, and what works for the shooters I have coached over the years.

If you look at many top level athletes in standing, they spend a good amount of time setting up the rifle as close to the bull as possible before they put their face down on the cheekpiece all the way. It is a good idea to study video footage from world cups to get an idea of this. Here is a much older video from 2004; I used this to illustrate this exact point to our shooters at smallbore camp. You don't have to fidget as much as they do, but it will give you a good idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsf70AyGbuE

A lot of this comes down to your routine in standing. Things like how you relax your back, your elbow, etc. Even lowering your head on the cheekpiece. Others on here can explain better the idea of breathing on to the bull better then me; when I took my last breath I just relaxed my body and my last breath on to the bull. I have my shooters work on making the rifle as steady as possible before they put their head down all the way. More of a feeling. There is a whole conversation that can be had about pre-aiming as well; things like looking above the sights or other reference marks can help you when you are relaxing into position.

Make sure your hips are perpendicular to the firing line and the rifle is over the center of your feet as much as possible. It would be helpful to make sure your body is truly aligned with the bull; if you can mark the very center of the target on your firing point see how it aligns to your feet. In a perfect world it should go along the center of your feet; for me it was a little closer to my toes.

Do you have the way of the rifle or any other books from MEC?

I would be curious to here others opinions on this. This is a worthwhile conversation to be had.

-Zach

[rgibson]

+1 on “Ways of the Rifle 2009.” I do not have the earlier version but am led to believe this version is much more detailed. VERY detailed!

[loadcc]

You force the muzzle into the middle - your trace comes from top right and recoil goes there then. The trace in your first post is defined by gravity only.

Post photos of your stance here.

thanks for u tip's, i take a stance photo and find a hips twist.i will fix my position and see what's change in the curve.

[loadcc]

How do shooters who make traces like the one in Post #1 typically lower their aim onto the 10 ring? Is it done by breathing out until the sights are centered on the bull or does one let the elbow of the arm supporting the rifle forend settle deeper onto the hip until sights are aligned? I've looked online and in several books and couldn't find an answer on how to make the final approach to the bull.

I found an interesting article by a well-known high power rifle shooter, David Tubb, who approaches the bull from the left since the vertical position is more fixed than the lateral one. I realize that this is quite different from what smallbore/AR shooters do.

https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editori ... 2906/84489

i browse the page you provide , it is a interesting way toapproach the bulleye.but it different from my coach's way. anyway i try this in my next training,check it's ok or not for me.

[loadcc]

+1 on “Ways of the Rifle 2009.” I do not have the earlier version but am led to believe this version is much more detailed. VERY detailed!

i can NOT find any version this book in my area,but in AMZON.COM.
it.s about 200+rmb for booke & 130+rmb for deliver fee from other country to my site. too expensive to me for a book .

[loadcc]

I can't say I ever made it to that level when I use to shoot competitive smallbore and air rifle. However, I can tell you something that worked for me, and what works for the shooters I have coached over the years.
......

-Zach

thanks,
Since able to stand still, I will definitely find a way for me to hold an air gun without moving, but it will be different for each person.gun should suit for shooter,NOT shooter suit gun.

Based on this idea, I won a friendly competition between primary and secondary school students yesterday in my city with 396.8 score in 40 shoots.i use 8 breath in the competition,3 in off-hand\2 in hold gun\1 set the face and aim in bull\1 for hold and shoot. take about 30 minutes for 40 shoots. it/s seem work for me.I spent the first 5 minutes of the game searching for my NPA,AND USE “sway”。competition with laser device。

i browse MEC site yet , but it is also too expensive for selling book, especiall the high deliver fee.

by the way, youtube\facebook....... not available in my area.so this site is very good for me.

[jcerne]

Thanks everyone for contributing to this thread. I'm learning a lot! I've mainly used the 2002 edition of "Ways of the RIfle" (MEC) and Launi Meili's "Rifle: Steps to success." They're excellent books but I couldn't find much on how to do the final approach. Perhaps this last motion is so close to NPA that it's just a matter of gently steering the rifle down to the bull?

I'm spending some time with the rifle shouldered to establish a stable, relaxed hold before putting my cheek on the rifle. One of my challenges is that I'm training for standers in air rifle field target competition. We get a about a minute a shot on targets that are at a variety of positions and distances (on the ground, in trees, etc). In US competitions we get only two shots at each target and at the World's you only get one shot per target. Of course, the kill zones are huge compared to 10m AR and smallbore targets, but not being able to settle into a position and establish a consistent hold over a long string of identical shots is hard. When I train for offhand, the first few shots tend to be off, but then I start settling in, but I need to make sure the first shot is a good one. I'm also using a 12 ft-lb spring piston air rifle, so there's a long dwell time, a fair amount of muzzle jump, and I need to aim 1 MOA higher compared to the other positions.

My main goals are to reduce the wobble area and to make sure I don't have any bad flyers on the first shot.

Thanks,
John

[mikeb1]

How do shooters who make traces like the one in Post #1 typically lower their aim onto the 10 ring? Is it done by breathing out until the sights are centered on the bull or does one let the elbow of the arm supporting the rifle forend settle deeper onto the hip until sights are aligned? I've looked online and in several books and couldn't find an answer on how to make the final approach to the bull.

I found an interesting article by a well-known high power rifle shooter, David Tubb, who approaches the bull from the left since the vertical position is more fixed than the lateral one. I realize that this is quite different from what smallbore/AR shooters do.

https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editori ... 2906/84489

Not that I'm a great shot, but to add my 2c:

I can't access that link for some reason, but I have played with the 'approach' method for field/service rifle matches. It's biggest strength seems to be is it's 'wind resistance' rather than pure stability so it's not really that relevant for 10m air or indoor 50m smallbore (David even mentions this in the link below):

https://www.ssusa.org/content/classic-s ... nd-scores/

I think that you will find the trace in the first post is just the shooter settling into position with elbow finding it's position against the hip to reach an NPA of the ten ring.

EDIT: Just realized you are interested in the context of FT. Approach may work well in that case.

[mikeb1]

For standing, is there anywhere a comparison of score with and without the jacket/pants?

average 8.3-8.5 without jacket&pants, 9.4-9.8 with jacket&pants (no shoes) after 20 days training of 1.5 hours perday.微信图片_20231116104441.jpg

Thanks for sharing this. I find these comparisons really interesting

[alpineboard]

Hi, I would like to share my work in progress, Have been training for 20 months now, every evening, 7 days a week, an hour to 1.5 hr, sometimes 2 hours. I take a day or 2 off after 30 days. Then back at it.
For me, there have been a few performance level steps in the topic of shot sequence, and how it is done.
At first , I would have rifle on the rest and do my breathing, at first 6 breaths, then later was doing as much as 8 breaths.
Then pick it up and do a few final breaths and onto the 6 second hold, relaxing and slowing down the breathing on the final few, and holding approx 70 % of air in lungs for the 6 second hold shot release. This went on for aprox 16 months.
Then at approx 18 months , I started to only reload while on the rest, then quickly pick it up and was doing all my breathing while holding it up, still doing the 70 % air in lung method for hold/release 6 second.
Now at 20 months, and just recently, became very relaxed in my method, and out of now where, just started shooting with 0% of air in my lungs, Now it is very easy to get the correct vertical placement via the air in lung on exhale, with 0% in lung, the sight movement is much steadier, shot release is so much more relaxed, and follow thru is very much better. Am presently in a ah ha moment. I do remember doing this way back in 1989, early 90's.
I also have a swimming background for triathlons, and once relaxed in swimming it is amazing of how much you do not have to breath. You only think you need to breath.
Steps to get to this point, you need to train enough hours to get to a physical level first, or during, then you need to work on relaxing and do a method of controlling your breathing. Just trying to share some experience, and possibly set you up for what to think and try , while you train.
My score levels have not really changed for the better, but my method has definitely developed to set me up for a new level jump into the high 90's.
and still try to keep a mild manner , and not be consumed by counting points as I go.

[Th.]

https://youtu.be/BveqK-ddbls?si=zhD_n0FU7zoIAf7X

This might be useful.
It’s in German but there are English subtitles available .

[alpineboard]

I think I am at a spot where I could continuously hold the rifle up and reload and shoot again many times , If that were possible, but it is not possible as the rifle is a fwb 800x, and for me and how it is set up adjustment wise, I can not reach that far with the pellet in my arm/fingers. I have seen this done on youtoobs, but I think it was done with a Walther, which is a smaller rifle. I have looked for that youtoob video , but can not find it, "air rifle reloading methods" of top shooting athletes. Interesting video, as you can learn much by watching other methods, and see what works for you.
I used to do this a long time ago using a scoped Anschutz 1413 smallbore at 18 pounds.

[alpineboard]

Found it. Laden is load.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI0Y_MKETXI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEh2CvW9I0g