Butt hook position
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Butt hook position
Hi everyone. My question is: in prone position I can shoot better if I turn the butt plate upside down and have the hook on top of my shoulder. Is this legal?
Re: Butt hook position
No, you cannot under ISSF rules. These state the heel (top) of the plate cannot project back more than 25mm (1in), and the hook can be up to 7in along the curve.
Practically, it's also a very poor idea. In Prone the hook is there to locate the buttplate more consistently in your shoulder. It may reduce torquing as under recoil, but it's not meant to prevent the butt moving vertically in your shoulder as you aim. When you mount the rifle hold the butt and swing it in from the side until the hook meets your armpit/ribs, and there you go. Having the hook at the top would make seating the buttplate rather awkward. The weight of your head on the stock would also push a top-mounted hook into your shoulder, which won't be comfortable. If you need the hook to prevent the butt moving down, there is something wrong with your position: the sling length/handstop position would be a good place to start.
To locate the buttplate, the hook needs to sit at the right angle to the butt (curvature can matter too if the hook is articulated), so it doesn't stop on your ribs before the buttplate is seated, nor does it stick out too far and catch on your arm. Often the height, cant, and offset of the buttplate need a tweak so the whole assembly fits your shoulder securely and places the sightline in front of your eye without stretching or straining; remember you can't nudge the plate around in your shoulder to aim with a hook.
If the butt and hook won't adjust far enough to fit you, and the hook prevents the butt from seating properly in your shoulder, why not remove it, and shoot without? Not all Free Rifle shooters use a hook, or at least not a full length hook.
Practically, it's also a very poor idea. In Prone the hook is there to locate the buttplate more consistently in your shoulder. It may reduce torquing as under recoil, but it's not meant to prevent the butt moving vertically in your shoulder as you aim. When you mount the rifle hold the butt and swing it in from the side until the hook meets your armpit/ribs, and there you go. Having the hook at the top would make seating the buttplate rather awkward. The weight of your head on the stock would also push a top-mounted hook into your shoulder, which won't be comfortable. If you need the hook to prevent the butt moving down, there is something wrong with your position: the sling length/handstop position would be a good place to start.
To locate the buttplate, the hook needs to sit at the right angle to the butt (curvature can matter too if the hook is articulated), so it doesn't stop on your ribs before the buttplate is seated, nor does it stick out too far and catch on your arm. Often the height, cant, and offset of the buttplate need a tweak so the whole assembly fits your shoulder securely and places the sightline in front of your eye without stretching or straining; remember you can't nudge the plate around in your shoulder to aim with a hook.
If the butt and hook won't adjust far enough to fit you, and the hook prevents the butt from seating properly in your shoulder, why not remove it, and shoot without? Not all Free Rifle shooters use a hook, or at least not a full length hook.
Re: Butt hook position
Thanks for your reply Tim. When I shoot 25y 10 bull target I get very small 5 shot groups that would easily fit in the 10 ring but they are never in the same place. With the hook on top I'm far more consistent. I didn't think it would be legal but NSRA rules didn't seem that clear so I thought I would ask the question.
Re: Butt hook position
Paul,Paul500 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:58 am Thanks for your reply Tim. When I shoot 25y 10 bull target I get very small 5 shot groups that would easily fit in the 10 ring but they are never in the same place. With the hook on top I'm far more consistent. I didn't think it would be legal but NSRA rules didn't seem that clear so I thought I would ask the question.
Oh, you're another Brit. I tend to assume most people here are American.
NSRA rules don't state whether the hook is at the top or bottom, although all diagrams show the hook in the conventional (bottom of plate) position. That said, I cannot think of a single high level (County, A/X class shooter) who has the hook at the top. I've seen some Gemini buttplates with many additional bits, but these can be articulated to follow the shoulder, unlike most hooks.
What rifle/butt do you use? If it's a Gemini, or MEC or an Anschutz made in the last 35 years, it should fit normally. Remember, the hook is a just a locator, not a locking device. The sling should hold the butt steady against the jacket. Butt length, the height of the plate, and offset (L-R movement) and cant all need to be properly adjusted so your hand can reach the grip and your head is behind the sights to aim without stretching or straining. If you need the hook at the top to prevent the butt from moving down, something isn't right with your position.
EDIT - if you're shooting a club rifle you may not be able to fit it to you individually. But do the best you can.
First make sure you are stable. This means adjusting the sling length together with the handstop until the butt is snug in your shoulder, but the shoulder isn't pushed back. Your left hand should reach out far enough to balance the rifle, while your forearm is at least 30° from horizontal. Then adjust the length of the butt so you can easily reach the grip; sliding the handstop back (or forwards) as needed to maintain the same distance to the buttplate. Then sort out eye relief, and butt height so the sights are a comfortable height and bear on the target (remember the 30° forearm rule) then cheekpiece height sonit fully supports your head. If you have a Supermatch type rifle, adjust the butt sideways and for cant if needed so the plate is secure in your shoulder, you aren't stretching your neck to reach the sight, and the rifle is at a comfortable angle (vertical or canted). You may need to adjust the cheekpiece sideways at this point, so there is enough contact against your cheek to line up yourself with the sights. Go slowly, and check as you go.
Re: Butt hook position
About 20 years ago, I was shooting an 1807 and for a few years somehow jerry rigged an 1813 style buttplate (with the hook taken off) onto it, flipped upside down. Eventually, I decided to go back to shooting a free rifle, with the buttplate in the correct orientation. I was mostly shooting USAS matches at the time and it was passing equipment check.
Re: Butt hook position
Rule 7.4.5.1d which limited the projection of the heel didn't cone into effect until 2013 I think, and the upside down heel wouldn't come close to the hook limits in 7.4.5.2b
I've seen shooters invert the old (1960s/'70s) "prone" buttplates w/o hook due to limited vertical movement. But none with the hook itself over the shoulder.