Need Air Rifle Recommendations

[Jerry]

My son has made the riflery team at his high school.
Since he has become so dedicated to the sport, we've decided to get him one for his birthday so that he can continue to practice during the summer. He is currently using a Feinwerkbau. Not sure what model but it's not the P70. We are leaning towards the P70 but are interested in getting other recommendations like Anshultz, Sauer, Walther, etc. Also, we are leaning towards the wooden stock but would like to find out what are the advantages of the aluminum stock. Thanks in advance for any input.
Jerry
onthelam-at-iname.com.47556.0

[Gary]

Having tried a few diferent rifles, get him to try different rifles, for fit and feel. He may find one that he likes, or one that he DOES NOT like. As others have said, they can all shoot 10s, the difference is the human interface of fit and feel.

My former AR coach told me one big advantage for wood is comfort in extreem temperatures. Metal gets awfully HOT in the hot Arizona desert and COLD in snowy northern states. Now this depends on the temp of the shooting range, but even indoors can be pretty hot or cold, as I've been told and read from others on this forum. While the parts of the rifle you hold while in position are wood, the other parts are metal, and you will touch them while handling the rifle.
He said that the AL stocks can be fitted better, because of more adjustments. But for the same reason, because it has soo many adjustments, it can be quite difficult to adjust to fit, if you don't know how to fit the rifle.
gud luk
Gary
.47559.47556

[Katy]

I have owned both wood and aluminum stock p70s and Ill tell you from experience that the aluminum is the better rifle. It is much more adjustable and as your son learns more in the sport he will learn how to use the more advanced adjustments.
Another thing to keep in mind is if your son is still growing. If he is still growing than ease of weight adjustment is important. the best weight adjustment systems (that are reasonably priced) Ive seen so far are Anschutz 2002 ca (the rifle I just currently started shooting with) and the Hammerli AR 50 Alu pro.
However, as Gary said it all comes down the preference. your son should try a few different rifles if possible.
I hope this helps,
Katy
.47584.47559

[Grzegorz]

Few days ago I read interview with Renata Mauer. She finally has found the mistake she did... more than 3 years ago. She switched from the wood to alu with her P70. That was a mistake. I am so happy she finally found that as this gives a chance to get another gold :-) So, there are different opinions... As usually. Personally I vote for Hammerli AR50 alu, but I am also so unpatient to try Walther LG300 XT Evolution (BTW if anybody has info...).
Have good shooting,
Grzegorz
PS. There is a rumor that Fein is going to enter a completely new AR soon.

.47588.47584

[Len]

If going with the LG 100, spend a bit of money and get the MEC butplate and trigger.
The alum stock is much more adjustable and inert.
I have about 27 different mordern match airguns and the two best in terms of comfort and adjustment in my experience are the two listed.
For many people that started with wood find changing to alum sort of hard. If your son starts with wood, just hope wood will be availible throughout his shooting career.
You son may be shooting the older 600 series rifle.

.47596.47556

[pdeal]

I don't know. I just got a copy of my USA shooting magazine. The cover had a picture of Jason Parker shooting an anschutz 2002ca with the older style spacer adjustable wood stock in i think a world cup match. Seems to me he shot a 596 that day with it and his hold was not very good that day.
pdeal-at-mylanlabs.com.47603.47596

[Len]

I'm sort of missing the point on this.
Is it that you need spacers for the wood gun and the alum only needs a slide adjust?
That if he shot an alum he would have scored a 600?


.47608.47603

[Perry W. McFarland]

I use the Feinwerkbau P70 Alu. and like it a lot. It is the only air rifle that I have ever had which I REALLY like. FYI, I am not a world class shooter (average in the low to mid 90% offhand).
Much is made of the different "feel" of the Alu. versus wood stock. I think that is mostly talk. What matters is that the SHAPE of the stock has to be correct for the shooter.
If you want a recommendation; I would say that if you want an air rifle with an aluminum stock; go for the FWB or the Hammerli. I believe that all of the other Alu. stocks are cast Aluminum; not machined forgings like the FWB and Hammerli. Also, consider the availability of parts and service. When you consider that; the others tend to drop out and you are left with FWB, Anschutz and Walther...
Perry

PerryMcF-at-aol.com.47613.47556

[Len]

Having both wood and alum, you would easily determine that there is a VERY different "feel" to them. The vibrations are different, heft, the cast, the seating, how they "position", where the balance points are, recoil impulse...the list is long as to the difference in the feel between wood and alum.
FYI there is a different "feel" between laminate and single wood stocks too.

.47615.47613

[Val]

: I'm sort of missing the point on this.
: Is it that you need spacers for the wood gun and the alum only needs a slide adjust?
: That if he shot an alum he would have scored a 600?
Actually, I think that the point was that even though an ALU stock may be considered better in general, some top shooters prefer the wood and perform well with it, which, once again shows that presonal preference is more important than the number of available adjustments.

.47618.47608

[X]

There certainly is a great difference in the feel of wood and alumnium in Air Rifles.
Have you tried both? Because once you do you will be suprised.
And on topic, I shoot an Anschutz 2002CA and love it. I have heard from many different people that there is a small amount of recoil in it compared to most other highend airguns, but it is negligable, and I dont feel that i suffer from it at all.

.47625.47613

[Len]

More than likely they were shooting wood, and continue to do so as an equipment change will have a learning/adjustment curve.

The real issue is you shoot with what you know and that what you start with is what you are probably going to shoot with unless it's not availible anymore or you've reached a level that requires new equipment.
I would bet moving forward, as more young shooters shoot with newer equipment, you will see less and less of the "old stuff".
It's one of the reasons you see P70's a lot more now and less c60's...not that the c-60's were bad, it's just the p70's are better.

.47627.47618

[Matt E.]

The best two guns on the market today are the Anschutz 2002CA and the Feinwerkbau P70. Anschutz recently came out with the 9003, but it will be expensive and may take a little while before they become available in the country. Steyr is another option, but I'm not quite sure exactly how good they are. Only a couple of the great airgun shooters in the world use them. Walther is yet another option with their LG300 alutec, but I would not recommend it. I have seen numerous (at least 8 or 9) people have problems with them (velocity irregularity, stripping of the cylinder threads, etc). It's a great stock design, poor action. Granted, though, there are a few people out there who shoot them and shoot quite well. These shooters, however, can handpick their guns from the factory.
Wood or aluminum is up to you. Basically it depends on feel and what you find is best.
Bottom line, you pretty much can't go wrong with Anschutz or Feinwerkbau.
Good luck!
.47630.47556

[Katy]

I disagree with your statement that you end up shooting stocks similar to what you started with...I started with a p70 with laminated wood and after two years switched over to aluminum. the transition felt very natural and my scores didnt suffer one bit. I dont think I will ever go back to a wood stock on an air rifle...now .22 is a different story....
Katy
: More than likely they were shooting wood, and continue to do so as an equipment change will have a learning/adjustment curve.
:
: The real issue is you shoot with what you know and that what you start with is what you are probably going to shoot with unless it's not availible anymore or you've reached a level that requires new equipment.
: I would bet moving forward, as more young shooters shoot with newer equipment, you will see less and less of the "old stuff".
: It's one of the reasons you see P70's a lot more now and less c60's...not that the c-60's were bad, it's just the p70's are better.

.47632.47627

[pdeal]

My point is that I am sure Jason Parker has encountered an anschutz alu. stock in his travels and since he still shoots a wood stocked rifle I conclude that alu is not best for everyone.
The best advice is what Gary said below try them and see what fits.
pdeal-at-mylanlabs.com.47642.47632

[GaryN]

The only problem with trying the rifle is something that Grzegorz mentioned. You have to get the rifle adjusted to fit you, to see how you like the fit.
When you borrow someones rifle to try it for fit, I'm not sure that the owner would be happy about you changing ALL the adjustments to fit you. Because it would take the owner a long time to get the adjustments back to where it was for him. I would not want to do that. Granted he should have it marked, but most people don't mark their adjustments. And there are some adjustments that are difficult to mark, like sliding the trigger blade on the rail, you don't have something to reference as a zero point.
But fitting is the only way to see how good the rifle (or pistol) fits.
I once tried an Anschutz 2000CA-AL. NOTHING fit me. The owner was a foot taller than me and slimmer in build, so all the adjustments were for him; length of pull, reach to trigger, cheekpiece height, buttplate, etc.
Gary

.47658.47642

[pdeal]

Well, I was going to recommend that for a person's first gun they should buy used for a decent price then if it doesn't work out the gun can be sold and then another gun can be tried.
What i think would be best though is if everyone would buy new guns so the used gun market goes to pot and I will buy the used ones. ;-)
pdeal-at-mylanlabs.com.47662.47658

[Len]

Go to a match, most of the people shooting are shooting what they had last year and continue to do so. Why because the learning curve that is required is there, they feel comfortable with what they have, and they may not have the money to switch.
The people shooting newer are people (more often than not) can afford it, are at a good place to switch (either they have hit a wall, are mentally ready to switch, or have been required to switch as team rifles have changed) or are shooting new because they are new.

The point is if you are shooting in the 590's and winning, switching rifles may be counter productive.
Shoot one rifle, shoot it well...the scores will come. Shoot a couple different rifles or switch all the time, more than likely it's a gadget game which will never beat a skill game.

.47667.47632

[GaryN]

Actually, I did exactly what you said.
I got both my 10m APs used from Pilkingtons. And indeed it is a good way to get into the better guns at a lower price. And to try 2 different brands.
About the fit. Turns out both grips did not fit my hand. The Pardini K58 was small, had to pad the front of the grip. The Walther CPM1 was too big (I could not reach the trigger), and I had to remove a lot of wood from the back of the grip to move my hand forward. So both grips are not representative of stock grips, for anyone who tries them.
Since I now shoot the Walther, I've been kicking around selling the Pardini.
Gary
.47684.47662

[Joseph]

I second Matt's observations. The Anschutz 2002 is the best action on the market (regardless of what you may have heard about the Hammerli). The FWB P70 is the best stock on the market, IMHO. Try all four of them (wood or alu on each) and see which one works best if that's an option. If it's not and he's using a P70 (probably a JR. because schools - at least in GA - don't buy full size p70's) and doesn't have specific problems with it that the design of the anschutz would fix, then get the P70. If he doesn't like the way the FWB action works, then an Anschutz would be a good option.
The bottom line: Everything - and i mean EVERYTHING - including details of technique that should be universal are completely up to personal preference (once you are sure what your preferences are). The rifle is no different.
.47818.47630