Standing...

[dontshootcritters]

Hi guys..

I dear say there isn't a right or wrong answer here BUT is the a preferred position to stand for air pistol when at the shooting line.

Parallel to the line or on an angle of some degree. I haven't shooting very long but cant decide which I should continue with...

Thanks in advance. All feedback appreciated.

Andrew

[JonPersson]

You stance should allow for two things:
- comfort (avoid neck/shoulder strain)
- stability (minimum arc of movement)

You need to find a stance which will let you be as stable as possible and be comfortable for the duration of a match+sighters.

Only you can decide what that is.
But I would say that many shooters will have a stance ranging from completely parallel to 45 degrees. (I’d say 0-30 degrees is most common but I have no scientific data to support it)

Key is comfort and stability. Being super stable but so uncomfortable you can only do it for 20 shots won’t be of use…

[MikeMargolis]

Coming from the Bullseye world, I am standing perpendicular to the line.

Try shooting 5 shots from a .45 in 10 seconds at a target 25 yards away without having a back foot to brace on. :)

Have a look at the ISSF Air Pistol videos on youtube, you'll see a lot of shooters in every position, but the perpendicular one seems most common.

Jon is right though, whatever is most comfortable for you...

[Gwhite]

I have a tremor/spasm problem in my right arm, and I am learning to shoot lefty. One of the things I was very surprised by is that my natural point of aim is about 45 degrees different from shooting right handed. When I was younger, I started out at about 45 degrees. Over time, I slowly shifted so my feet were more parallel to the firing line. Now, they want to be almost perpendicular. I suspect a lot of it has to do with muscles. My left side is definitely feebler than my right, and as I get stronger, I won't be surprised to see it shift back a bit more towards 45 degrees.

[eugene]

Most top shooters appear to be standing in-line, so this is probably the optimal stance for a top athlete that has all other variables dialed in. However there is no need to be dogmatic early on: the effect of stability for novice shooter is perhaps the least important after grip, lift technique, aiming and trigger handling. Little use to stand in-line if you can't endure full match with that. I (another newbie) start shooting in-line but towards the end of a match I develop a ~10 degree bearing. Has to do something with fatigue but haven't yet figured which one yet.

[McMadCow]

I open up to the target by about 5 degrees. It's a little more comfortable in my neck and shoulders, which means fewer tremors fighting against stress.

[emre-nur]

Hi to all,

We also see many top athletes leaning a bit backwards.

Yet, many instructive materials just talk about distributing weight equally on both foot, implying that this will give the best balance. For me, this hardly seems to be the case when I am holding a pistol with 90 degrees angle to my body. I tend to lean back too, which gives me a better alignment with the target (might be something to do with one's height) and more steady hold.

As a newbie, the question is how much to lean back and more importantly am I picking up something wrong?

[JonPersson]

Hi to all,

We also see many top athletes leaning a bit backwards.

Yet, many instructive materials just talk about distributing weight equally on both foot, implying that this will give the best balance. For me, this hardly seems to be the case when I am holding a pistol with 90 degrees angle to my body. I tend to lean back too, which gives me a better alignment with the target (might be something to do with one's height) and more steady hold.

As a newbie, the question is how much to lean back and more importantly am I picking up something wrong?

Proper weight distribution is achieved by leaning back a bit to counter the weight of the arm and pistol. However, hip placement is an important part of weight distribution. If you lean back a lot you can slightly push the hip forward and get perfect weight distribution on both feet.

The key is reaching a relaxed equilibrium. The leaning back and the placement of hip and feet should all feel natural and in no way forced.

Some lean a lot, some less…..because it suits their anatomy

[BobGee]

A tried and trusted method of finding your “correct” stance is to adopt your preferred stance, raise your pistol to your aiming point, close your eyes for a count of 5 or 10, open your eyes and if not still on aim, alter your stance to bring the pistol back on aim. This is done by moving your rear foot towards where your pistol was pointing. Then repeat until a consistent aim is achieved. Remember this position - some use chalk marks on the floor when shooting a match.

Some call this your Natural Point of Aim - NPA. I don’t like that term as I believe it will change over time.

Bob

[Gwhite]

A tried and trusted method of finding your “correct” stance is to adopt your preferred stance, raise your pistol to your aiming point, close your eyes for a count of 5 or 10, open your eyes and if not still on aim, alter your stance to bring the pistol back on aim. This is done by moving your rear foot towards where your pistol was pointing. Then repeat until a consistent aim is achieved. Remember this position - some use chalk marks on the floor when shooting a match.

Some call this your Natural Point of Aim - NPA. I don’t like that term as I believe it will change over time.

Bob

Which is precisely why the chalk routine is counterproductive. During the course of a match, your muscles will tire & stretch, and your NPA will shift. I always enjoy competing against the chalk guys because I know their NPA will be off by the end of a match...

It's also better to close your eyes BEFORE you lift the pistol. Your body & brain will remember where the target was long enough to bias the results.

[emre-nur]

Hi to all,

We also see many top athletes leaning a bit backwards.

Yet, many instructive materials just talk about distributing weight equally on both foot, implying that this will give the best balance. For me, this hardly seems to be the case when I am holding a pistol with 90 degrees angle to my body. I tend to lean back too, which gives me a better alignment with the target (might be something to do with one's height) and more steady hold.

As a newbie, the question is how much to lean back and more importantly am I picking up something wrong?

A further leaning-like problem is whether more on the heels or the toes. Again, advised to distribute equally. However, in your natural standing, it is almost never equal. For me, being on the heels renders one very static, maybe stable at first but not able to respond to the wobble as the operation progresses .

As a newbie, these are so far my impressions. Maybe, some shoes help bringing one to the optimal stance. I have been using flat shoes.

[JonPersson]

A further leaning-like problem is whether more on the heels or the toes. Again, advised to distribute equally. However, in your natural standing, it is almost never equal. For me, being on the heels renders one very static, maybe stable at first but not able to respond to the wobble as the operation progresses .

As a newbie, these are so far my impressions. Maybe, some shoes help bringing one to the optimal stance. I have been using flat shoes.

I’d say weight on midfoot or just a tad frontwise. But not so much it will build up tension in the calf muscles. Never the weight on the heels, since you can not keep your balance for long. Proper shoes is a must. They should have a rather stiff sole and must not feel spongy.
Weight lifting shoes are good.

[emre-nur]

Which is precisely why the chalk routine is counterproductive. During the course of a match, your muscles will tire & stretch, and your NPA will shift. I always enjoy competing against the chalk guys because I know their NPA will be off by the end of a match...

Thanks Gwhite

It is pretty obvious even for a beginner that a fixed point wont work.
Yet, this is usually overlooked in the instructive materials.

Maybe, we should compile a book from these views, advises and feedback ...:)

I volunteer to be your assistant Gwihte, if you have not authored one already.
Perhaps, we can apply for a fund !

[BobGee]

.
Weight lifting shoes are good.

+1

Bob

[eugene]

Maybe, we should compile a book from these views, advises and feedback ...:)

Books do cover that. Pistol Shooting the Olympic Disciplines describes stance leaning etc in excruciating detail for each discipline.

[Gwhite]

Which is precisely why the chalk routine is counterproductive. During the course of a match, your muscles will tire & stretch, and your NPA will shift. I always enjoy competing against the chalk guys because I know their NPA will be off by the end of a match...

Thanks Gwhite

It is pretty obvious even for a beginner that a fixed point wont work.
Yet, this is usually overlooked in the instructive materials.

Maybe, we should compile a book from these views, advises and feedback ...:)

I volunteer to be your assistant Gwihte, if you have not authored one already.
Perhaps, we can apply for a fund !

I've got too many other projects in the works at the moment. At least it's all down here for posterity, along with lots of good insight from others. The worst coaches in the world are the ones that claim theirs is the ONLY right way to do things. Every shooter is different, and what works for one may not work well at all for another. That's why studying videos and slavishly mimicking the latest gold medal Olympic shooter too closely is a waste of time. If you really look closely, the finalists all do a lot of things differently.

https://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.ph ... 15#p277611

[David Levene]

The worst coaches in the world are the ones that claim theirs is the ONLY right way to do things. Every shooter is different, and what works for one may not work well at all for another. That's why studying videos and slavishly mimicking the latest gold medal Olympic shooter too closely is a waste of time.

It is also why ex-elite shooters do not (always) make good coaches.

They might (think that they) know what worked for them, but need to be able to recognise that other techniques, or just small tweaks, would be better for other shooters.

[emre-nur]

The worst coaches in the world are the ones that claim theirs is the ONLY right way to do things. Every shooter is different, and what works for one may not work well at all for another. That's why studying videos and slavishly mimicking the latest gold medal Olympic shooter too closely is a waste of time.

It is also why ex-elite shooters do not (always) make good coaches.

They might (think that they) know what worked for them, but need to be able to recognise that other techniques, or just small tweaks, would be better for other shooters.

This is so true— speaking with 20 years of experience in academic teaching.

This also reminds me what Maradona once said: "I cant teach players things that only I can do".
Maybe, sounds a bit arrogant, but it reveals great insights why he did not make great a coach, despite being phenomenal on the pitch .