As I attempt to keep refining my practice/training, I am puzzled by the intensity of gripping the pistol. I have read both the "firm handshake" and "solid grip on an egg" concepts. For me, my best results seem to happen when I am gripping more intensly and "taking control" of the trigger (as opposed to the "constant squeeze/it just goes off" theories) and now I am concentrating on building up the ability to maintain that intensity over the course of a match. No doubt there are surely some "wrong" ways to do things, but the minute aspects of really fine muscle control and mental focus present themselves to me as very introspective and subjective at best. I don't have the benefit of coaching so I try to work on these aspects over a period of time to evaluate the gain. So far, the most helpful thing I have done is put a white dot on the front sight and imagine the portrait of Lincoln on a postage stamp being there. I focus on the mole on his cheek. When I do that, the bull becomes less clear and the sights jump out...and results are generally good. The tough part of this is making it happen every time. Craig
alance2002-at-yahoo.com.47233.0
Next question-- grip and hold
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
-
Avianna
Re: Next question-- grip and hold
For me, the intensity of grip depends on the event. For AP, my grip is really quite relaxed, since there is almost no recoil, I don't find a need for a really strong grip. For SP, I grip a little harder, because recoil becomes more of an issue, especially in the rapid portion. For CF, I have to grip harder because the gun is heavier, and the little power of the 32 can shake my, I suppose, otherwise loose grip out of position.
I think for short periods of time, a stronger grip can give a small group, but if you cannot maintain that level throughout your match, then your groups will not be consistent. Also, if you grip too hard for too long, and really overly develop that muscle, I think it's been known to cause tennis elbow... but I am sure there are others much more qualified than me to comment on that.
As for the trigger, I would say the best results for me occur when I am somewhere in between "constant squeeze and it just goes off" and "mentally initiating the shot and slowing down right before the break". I am working on just pulling through and letting it go where it goes, because the problem of slowing down before the shot break is sometimes I slow down too much, and then I am sitting on the edge of break/not break, and then I am doing the very bad thing of waiting for the perfect picture and then snatch on the trigger. So, I try to focus on the sights and the grip, and letting the trigger happen almost by itself. Or at least I am trying to program myself into that, so when the time comes, it goes.
As for focusing on the front sight vs the target, this is a tricky one for me because I am far sighted. So it is easier for me to focus on the target than on the front sight. I have yet to figure out the perfect solution for this problem, but I often will start by focusing on the back sights, or maybe the wood part below the back sights, or even just the top of my wrist in order to force my focus to somewhere not on the target, and then moving it to the front sight. I find that this is easier than trying to go directly to the front sight. Yeah, it is tough to make it happen every time. One thing, breathing does help improve sight picture, sometimes if you are shooting too quick and don't take enough breaths in between, your sight picture will not be as clear. But if you take a break and take some long breaths, on the next shot, wow, the front sight can be amazingly clear. This may also be the case because you are giving your eyes a break and changing its focus length.
I haven't tried the white dot thing since borrowing someone's Glock for an IPSC match, maybe I will try it and see if it makes focusing on the front sight any easier.
Avianna
: As I attempt to keep refining my practice/training, I am puzzled by the intensity of gripping the pistol. I have read both the "firm handshake" and "solid grip on an egg" concepts. For me, my best results seem to happen when I am gripping more intensly and "taking control" of the trigger (as opposed to the "constant squeeze/it just goes off" theories) and now I am concentrating on building up the ability to maintain that intensity over the course of a match. No doubt there are surely some "wrong" ways to do things, but the minute aspects of really fine muscle control and mental focus present themselves to me as very introspective and subjective at best. I don't have the benefit of coaching so I try to work on these aspects over a period of time to evaluate the gain. So far, the most helpful thing I have done is put a white dot on the front sight and imagine the portrait of Lincoln on a postage stamp being there. I focus on the mole on his cheek. When I do that, the bull becomes less clear and the sights jump out...and results are generally good. The tough part of this is making it happen every time. Craig
.47237.47233
I think for short periods of time, a stronger grip can give a small group, but if you cannot maintain that level throughout your match, then your groups will not be consistent. Also, if you grip too hard for too long, and really overly develop that muscle, I think it's been known to cause tennis elbow... but I am sure there are others much more qualified than me to comment on that.
As for the trigger, I would say the best results for me occur when I am somewhere in between "constant squeeze and it just goes off" and "mentally initiating the shot and slowing down right before the break". I am working on just pulling through and letting it go where it goes, because the problem of slowing down before the shot break is sometimes I slow down too much, and then I am sitting on the edge of break/not break, and then I am doing the very bad thing of waiting for the perfect picture and then snatch on the trigger. So, I try to focus on the sights and the grip, and letting the trigger happen almost by itself. Or at least I am trying to program myself into that, so when the time comes, it goes.
As for focusing on the front sight vs the target, this is a tricky one for me because I am far sighted. So it is easier for me to focus on the target than on the front sight. I have yet to figure out the perfect solution for this problem, but I often will start by focusing on the back sights, or maybe the wood part below the back sights, or even just the top of my wrist in order to force my focus to somewhere not on the target, and then moving it to the front sight. I find that this is easier than trying to go directly to the front sight. Yeah, it is tough to make it happen every time. One thing, breathing does help improve sight picture, sometimes if you are shooting too quick and don't take enough breaths in between, your sight picture will not be as clear. But if you take a break and take some long breaths, on the next shot, wow, the front sight can be amazingly clear. This may also be the case because you are giving your eyes a break and changing its focus length.
I haven't tried the white dot thing since borrowing someone's Glock for an IPSC match, maybe I will try it and see if it makes focusing on the front sight any easier.
Avianna
: As I attempt to keep refining my practice/training, I am puzzled by the intensity of gripping the pistol. I have read both the "firm handshake" and "solid grip on an egg" concepts. For me, my best results seem to happen when I am gripping more intensly and "taking control" of the trigger (as opposed to the "constant squeeze/it just goes off" theories) and now I am concentrating on building up the ability to maintain that intensity over the course of a match. No doubt there are surely some "wrong" ways to do things, but the minute aspects of really fine muscle control and mental focus present themselves to me as very introspective and subjective at best. I don't have the benefit of coaching so I try to work on these aspects over a period of time to evaluate the gain. So far, the most helpful thing I have done is put a white dot on the front sight and imagine the portrait of Lincoln on a postage stamp being there. I focus on the mole on his cheek. When I do that, the bull becomes less clear and the sights jump out...and results are generally good. The tough part of this is making it happen every time. Craig
.47237.47233
-
Mako
Re: Next question-- grip and hold
Focusing on the front sight is paramount ... the white dot helps me ...
The legendary russian coach that had the pistol articles in the ISSF magazine this year ... and occasionally posts here ... noted that "all" elite shooters have strong grips. The Marines say, Tight Grip, Tight Groups. I think experienced shooters sort of automatically develop strong grips. I've used various exercises to help my grip. I find that I have to stretch it to avoid stiffness ...
Free Pistol World Record holder, Match plus Finals, Ex-Marine Bill Demarest uses a Super strong grip. When he takes his hand off of the grip ... the inside is white ... the outside red. He says ... it's like he's wringing the neck off of a chicken. Bill claims that a strong grip makes one more consistent ... and helps avoid flyers.
Read the Interviews on the Pilkgun web site ...
Many top shooters say that you can't concentrate on multipule things at once ... well ... so your concentration should be on the front sight and sight alignment ... and the trigger pull needs to be automatic. There is no way you can react fast enough to "control" the trigger ... it must be automatic ... except that you must be able to stop the trigger pull, even at the last moment ... in order to start over if things aren't going well.
By using general area aiming in the Sub-6 zone ... you again eliminate having to concentrate on one more thing ...
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.47244.47237
The legendary russian coach that had the pistol articles in the ISSF magazine this year ... and occasionally posts here ... noted that "all" elite shooters have strong grips. The Marines say, Tight Grip, Tight Groups. I think experienced shooters sort of automatically develop strong grips. I've used various exercises to help my grip. I find that I have to stretch it to avoid stiffness ...
Free Pistol World Record holder, Match plus Finals, Ex-Marine Bill Demarest uses a Super strong grip. When he takes his hand off of the grip ... the inside is white ... the outside red. He says ... it's like he's wringing the neck off of a chicken. Bill claims that a strong grip makes one more consistent ... and helps avoid flyers.
Read the Interviews on the Pilkgun web site ...
Many top shooters say that you can't concentrate on multipule things at once ... well ... so your concentration should be on the front sight and sight alignment ... and the trigger pull needs to be automatic. There is no way you can react fast enough to "control" the trigger ... it must be automatic ... except that you must be able to stop the trigger pull, even at the last moment ... in order to start over if things aren't going well.
By using general area aiming in the Sub-6 zone ... you again eliminate having to concentrate on one more thing ...
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.47244.47237
-
Mako
Re: Next question-- grip and hold
Tennis Elbow, et al.
The two elite shooters that I personally know ... both say that they sometimes have to shoot with a lot of pain ... primarily shoulder pain. The result of years of practicing. I've heard that tthe greatest athletes are those that can best operate effectively with pain ... and who can recover quickly from the inevitable injuries.
Part of our problem is that what we do is so one sided. My one top shooter friend tries to hold his pistol out stretched with his none shooting hand during practice and even matches ... every once in a while ... to try to balance things out.
My one friend missed the Sydney Olympics because he cut his trigger finger badly shortly before having to leave. While recovering he shot a personal best in CF ... using his middle finger and a modified grip ... :-)
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.47247.47244
The two elite shooters that I personally know ... both say that they sometimes have to shoot with a lot of pain ... primarily shoulder pain. The result of years of practicing. I've heard that tthe greatest athletes are those that can best operate effectively with pain ... and who can recover quickly from the inevitable injuries.
Part of our problem is that what we do is so one sided. My one top shooter friend tries to hold his pistol out stretched with his none shooting hand during practice and even matches ... every once in a while ... to try to balance things out.
My one friend missed the Sydney Olympics because he cut his trigger finger badly shortly before having to leave. While recovering he shot a personal best in CF ... using his middle finger and a modified grip ... :-)
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.47247.47244
-
Barry Markowitz
Tennis Elbow, et al.
While shooting video and stills for an airline in Samoa two weeks ago I got the old tennis and golf elbow syndrome, lugging too much equipment from location to location. Luckily on return the Univ. of Houston football team doctor (at Hawaii Bowl practices) took a look at it and prescribed Advil (not Tylenol) and wrapped my elbow in ice. 90% of the pain was gone the next day, and I could have shot a match if necessary. Both of the above conditions, my understanding, are from side pressure or snapping of the wrist, not from grip pressure. Whatever brings it on, Dr. Matusic's input would be appropriate here, I hope this minor over the counter treatment suggestion helps alleviate the pain.
: Tennis Elbow, et al.
: The two elite shooters that I personally know ... both say that they sometimes have to shoot with a lot of pain ... primarily shoulder pain. The result of years of practicing. I've heard that tthe greatest athletes are those that can best operate effectively with pain ... and who can recover quickly from the inevitable injuries.
: Part of our problem is that what we do is so one sided. My one top shooter friend tries to hold his pistol out stretched with his none shooting hand during practice and even matches ... every once in a while ... to try to balance things out.
: My one friend missed the Sydney Olympics because he cut his trigger finger badly shortly before having to leave. While recovering he shot a personal best in CF ... using his middle finger and a modified grip ... :-)
newsphotohi-at-hawaii.rr.com.47253.47247
: Tennis Elbow, et al.
: The two elite shooters that I personally know ... both say that they sometimes have to shoot with a lot of pain ... primarily shoulder pain. The result of years of practicing. I've heard that tthe greatest athletes are those that can best operate effectively with pain ... and who can recover quickly from the inevitable injuries.
: Part of our problem is that what we do is so one sided. My one top shooter friend tries to hold his pistol out stretched with his none shooting hand during practice and even matches ... every once in a while ... to try to balance things out.
: My one friend missed the Sydney Olympics because he cut his trigger finger badly shortly before having to leave. While recovering he shot a personal best in CF ... using his middle finger and a modified grip ... :-)
newsphotohi-at-hawaii.rr.com.47253.47247
-
Craig E.
No substitute for the quality of people in this forum
Serious inquiries always get thoughtful and insightful repsonses in TT. I would not be as active and enthusiastic about shooting were it not for the chance to glean experience from so many truly helpful people. Kudos to the host and the folks that stop by here. Happy New Year to all. Craig
alance2002-at-yahoo.com.47257.47233
alance2002-at-yahoo.com.47257.47233
-
JLK
Re: Next question-- grip and hold
Mako,
I believe what you say about our activity being "unbalanced" has a lot of merit. Holding the pistol from time to time with the normally non shooting hand sounds like it could help. After suffering many injuries in other activities, from spinal fusions and titanium plating to broken noses and blown out knees, at my old age I vote for an "ounce of prevention versus a pound of cure". I believe a lot of pain and suffering can be avoided by proper physical conditioning. I only wish I had realized this at an earlier age. I recommend regular training. Kinda like someone said on this board about dry firing... a little often is better than a lot every once in awhile.
JLK
.47263.47247
I believe what you say about our activity being "unbalanced" has a lot of merit. Holding the pistol from time to time with the normally non shooting hand sounds like it could help. After suffering many injuries in other activities, from spinal fusions and titanium plating to broken noses and blown out knees, at my old age I vote for an "ounce of prevention versus a pound of cure". I believe a lot of pain and suffering can be avoided by proper physical conditioning. I only wish I had realized this at an earlier age. I recommend regular training. Kinda like someone said on this board about dry firing... a little often is better than a lot every once in awhile.
JLK
.47263.47247