Any Bad Free Pistols?

[Michael]

Merry Christmas!!! Are there any used free pistol models that have a bad reputation? Are there any Pardini models that aren't very good? What is the difference between a side cocking TOZ and the rest? Is one better than another?
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[Rob]

: The Pardini PGP75,K50 and current model are all capable pistols. You might have to check with Don Nygord about parts availability with the PGP75. There are many used free pistols out there that were well cared for and have seen little use. The only free pistols Ive seen give people trouble were the Walther electronic and the Hammerli 150 electronic. This does not mean there bad and unreliable but Ive heard at several matches people hoping they would get through the match without a trigger failure. At the time the Miller's were the Hammerli service center. Now with Larry Carter fixing the guns maybe everything is better. The 1998 winner of the NRA open indoor free pistol sectional shot a 558 with a PGP75 and the 97 winner shot a 553 with a K50. They are both outstanding individuals.
rdnault851-at-msn.com.47128.47124

[Mark]

I believe on this board or at www.targetshooting.ca there was a post about how the Walthers had problems and that even Walther didn't know how to fix or provide a circuit board for their old electronic trigger guns.
: : The Pardini PGP75,K50 and current model are all capable pistols. You might have to check with Don Nygord about parts availability with the PGP75. There are many used free pistols out there that were well cared for and have seen little use. The only free pistols Ive seen give people trouble were the Walther electronic and the Hammerli 150 electronic. This does not mean there bad and unreliable but Ive heard at several matches people hoping they would get through the match without a trigger failure. At the time the Miller's were the Hammerli service center. Now with Larry Carter fixing the guns maybe everything is better. The 1998 winner of the NRA open indoor free pistol sectional shot a 558 with a PGP75 and the 97 winner shot a 553 with a K50. They are both outstanding individuals.

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[Claudio]

Stay away from Walther Electronic free pistols, even if they are working. Some are still working but you can't rely on them and Walther in Germany does not support it anymore.
I would stay away from any electronic pistol of any kind. The advantage of electronics isn't worth the trouble.
The best value for your money is a new Pardini free pistol.
Any used free pistol that has parts or support is best.
Dealers that support their products and that are of a good and friendly nature is best. You will know who they are from this mesage board.
incrocci-at-shaw.ca.47130.47124

[Michael]

Thanks all. That is just the kind of information I needed. Anyone else have any input?
: I believe on this board or at www.targetshooting.ca there was a post about how the Walthers had problems and that even Walther didn't know how to fix or provide a circuit board for their old electronic trigger guns.
: : : The Pardini PGP75,K50 and current model are all capable pistols. You might have to check with Don Nygord about parts availability with the PGP75. There are many used free pistols out there that were well cared for and have seen little use. The only free pistols Ive seen give people trouble were the Walther electronic and the Hammerli 150 electronic. This does not mean there bad and unreliable but Ive heard at several matches people hoping they would get through the match without a trigger failure. At the time the Miller's were the Hammerli service center. Now with Larry Carter fixing the guns maybe everything is better. The 1998 winner of the NRA open indoor free pistol sectional shot a 558 with a PGP75 and the 97 winner shot a 553 with a K50. They are both outstanding individuals.

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[Matt Cole]

The early Hammerli FP10's have been widely reviled on this board for poor quality and workmanship. Some have reported happiness with newer FP10's.
I have a friend who was getting poor groups with his Hammerli 162 Special (purchased NIB). A competent gunsmith recrowned his barrel and now all seems well.
I've shot a Toz 35M and now shoot a Morini CM84E and recommend both equally. Morini has better sights and the electronic trigger is nice (which was enough for me to make the switch). The Toz has better balance out-of-the box (to me) and the trigger is more adjustable.
I've also heard nothing but good things about the Pardini K22 (don't know about older Pardinis).
Good luck.

mc-at-harrisfish.com.47138.47124

[Chris L in NC]

I shot next to a good fellow at a bullseye match a couple years ago and he said he used to shoot FP a lot in the past. He said stay away from the Walther FP, not only because of the bad electronics, but the dang thing weighed a ton. This was OK for stability, until his arm got tired. No one could beat him for the first 30 shots; anyone could beat him for the last 30 shots.
chrisatty-at-hotmail.com.47144.47136

[Bill Abernethy]

I bought a used one pretty cheap some years ago and sort of like it; not my FP of choice (that would be the TOZ)but fun to shoot and (knock wood)no problems yet. Lack of support is pretty scary, though.
Bill Abernethy
bill-at-wccnet.org.47149.47144

[guido]

Another one to stay away from unless you have tried it and think you can manage to ever get used to the strange grip and even stranger trigger. Beautiful workmanship though...

gdg-at-iafrica.com.47151.47149

[Jim]

Hi,
The Walther free pistol has really given electronic triggers a bad rap! The Hammerli 152 and 162 are reliable so long as you don't get solvent into the electronics.(Duh!) Unfortunately, this is the #1 cause of problems. The electronics are pretty straightforward. My experience with support from Hammerli and Larry Carter is excellent. BTW: I seem to recall an Olympic medal won in the 60's with a Hammerli 100 series FP modified with what was then an experimental electronic trigger. Today, the Morini free and air pistols w/electronic triggers seem quite popular and reliable. A quality free pistol is just that, electronic or mechanical. But to answer your question, the Steyr free pistol seems to be near the top of the "avoid" list. Besides the Steyr and the Walther, there aren't too many lemons to avoid. Unfortunately, the classics free pistols are out of production: namely older Hammerlis (100 series, 150, 151, 152, 160, 162) and the TOZ. Consider parts availability. (As I said, Hammerli has a good track record in my opinion.) If possible, try as many as you can.
Jim
james.buckland-at-converse.edu.47152.47124

[Paul T (UK)]

The Steyr gets bad press and I am not sure why. It is unconventional but has the advantage of fine grip alignment and adjustment. The trigger is OK but certainly not the best and the sight radius is not a long as some others. It is no longer manufactured but I am sure some good bargains exist if this pistol suits you. Remember to clean out the lead build-up from the compensator!
Several colleagues owned Walthers and I do not recall one having a kind word about their trigger and reliability!
The Hammerli 152 (last one they ever made) was a great gun and like the Steyr was sorry to see it go in the UK ban in the mid 90’s. I benefited from warnings from others regarding the sensitivity of the trigger mechanism to solvent, dirt etc. I did shoot several early Hammeli club pistols and the 120 (I think) was excellent and very much like a standard pistol in grip rake and balance.
I have always wanted a well maintained TOZ but could never find a good one when I could have one in the UK and the new long-arm versions in the UK are SAM, Pardini and Morini ONLY so this aspiration will probably never happen.
The Morini is excellent to shoot. I had a custom grip made in Switzerland that is truly excellent as is the pistol. After about a 1000 rounds, the rather tight action is about run in and operates smoothly. We have a customisation in the UK delivering an overall length of 600mm plus with integral rear accessory rails that provide a nice balance. In truth, after shooting this with a minimal amount of rear weight plus the mounting just in front of the breach, its centre balance is wonderful. I can post some low res pictures of this model if any are interested?
I rejected the Pardini but this was a very close second. The main reason was the presentation of the UK rear integral accessory rail that obviously would not be a factor for non-UK shooters. This comment is based on the latest model, I have not had the pleasure of shooting earlier models.
I personally did not like the SAM but would urge you shoot as many examples as possible before parting with hard earned cash. The grips, their customisation by somebody competent and your optics (if required) are essential items so I suggest you save a good budget for these items as I believe these can make a tremendous difference for their relatively cost.

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[stephen maly]

Arnold Vitarbo just built and excellent grip (left-handed even) for me for one of these guns. By the way, I haven't found anything unusual about the trigger (if it is set correctly). I've owned TOZ-35's, and a Hammerli 152. The TOZ was my favourite, but with short fingers, it could not be made to fit, but the MC 55-1 could, and it shoots pretty well too!

smaly-at-kes.ns.ca.47170.47151

[guido]

Yes, I think with the right grip it must work well.
The one I owned had a terrible trigger [probably had been tinkered with] and a friend also has one and we cannot get the trigger to work properly. Spongy and creepy...
cheers

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