I know nothing about free pistols. I'm considering a used one, as I'd like to keep the expense down. I'll only be shooting 4 or 5 matches a year and my skill level isn't such that I can justify a Morini, which would be my first choice. Is there any drawback to the TOZ? I have been looking at a used Hammerli 106. Would that be a good choice? Is there anyone who would like to sell me a used free pistol for $500 or so?
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Free Pistols
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
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Questor
Re: Free Pistols
Dumb question, but why couldn't you use a long-barrelled automatic that's been tuned to have a very light trigger pull? Something like a Ruger government or Buckmark bullseye.
Just a thought.
.46855.46853
Just a thought.
.46855.46853
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Mark
Re: Free Pistols
Toz works great. It was used to set the world record and the new world record for 60 shots+final. I'd guess that a most if not all of the free pistols out there are accurate enough. A lot of it is going to come down to personal feel. Do you like a more angled grip, or a more vertical grip? More forward balance, or more rearward balance? To me, the Toz seemed to have a very angled grip and balances more neutrally or maybe even to the rear; these are things I like. I tried a Hammerli 162 and the grip seemed a bit more vertical and it definitely felt more nose-heavy (which I didn't like). Personally, I'm getting a Toz as soon as I can scrape together the cash. But these are things that should probably try to check out for your self if you can get your hands on a variety of free pistols in your area.
: I know nothing about free pistols. I'm considering a used one, as I'd like to keep the expense down. I'll only be shooting 4 or 5 matches a year and my skill level isn't such that I can justify a Morini, which would be my first choice. Is there any drawback to the TOZ? I have been looking at a used Hammerli 106. Would that be a good choice? Is there anyone who would like to sell me a used free pistol for $500 or so?
.46860.46853
: I know nothing about free pistols. I'm considering a used one, as I'd like to keep the expense down. I'll only be shooting 4 or 5 matches a year and my skill level isn't such that I can justify a Morini, which would be my first choice. Is there any drawback to the TOZ? I have been looking at a used Hammerli 106. Would that be a good choice? Is there anyone who would like to sell me a used free pistol for $500 or so?
.46860.46853
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Mark.
Re: Free Pistols
Hi There,
This is the "other" Mark that posts on this board - look for my posts as being distinguished by having a period after my name (just to avoid confusion...). My two cents worth.
I have a TOZ, a Hammerli 150, and a Morini CM84E. All are fine pistols. I wouldn't recommend shooting a semiauto gun as a free pistol although I've done it on several occasions. They just put you at too much of a disadvantage because of their heavy trigger pull and the need to manually load each shot as required by ISSF regulations. Free pistol is best shot with a free pistol.
That having been said, the TOZ is a fine pistol, with an exceptionally adjustable mechanical trigger. It can not only be adjusted in terms of position relative to your finger, but it also is adjustable for draw weigh and draw length (pretravel) which provides for a wide range of different triggering "feels". Overall, this is definitely one of the best mechanical triggers.
The downsides of the TOZ are pretty easily pointed out. The factory grip is good for very little other than firewood, as I have yet to find anybody who's been able to make one fit their hand well, without extensive modification. An aftermarket grip such as those offered by Rink, Morini and Vitarbo is pretty much necessary if you're intending to get serious about shooting.
The other major drawback is in the sight department. Most of the guns I've seen have some visible deficiency in the sights (ie front sight is crooked, rear sight notch isn't square, etc). Most of these little things can either be lived with, or fixed with basic home tools and some patient application of elbow grease.
Mechanical reliability of the TOZ is good. It does require some regular maintenance as there's an amazing amount of crud that gets built up in the action. Maintenance is pretty much limited to a thorough cleaning after every couple of bricks of ammo, and a good scrub of the breach face, extractor and chamber after every match. But you'd do this with any gun you own if you wanted to ensure reliability.
Spare parts are scarce, but Don Nygord can get most parts and carries many in stock. They ain't cheap, though (but this complaint is common to all free pistol parts!).
You'll see the same advice on this board time and time again. Try as many guns as you can, and pick the one that fits you best. Of all the forms of pistols, selection of the best free pistol is the most subjective art. Nobody can advise you better than your own hands, eyes, and scores!
I hope you jump into free pistol shooting with both feet and enjoy it. It's a great sport!
Mark.
.46863.46853
This is the "other" Mark that posts on this board - look for my posts as being distinguished by having a period after my name (just to avoid confusion...). My two cents worth.
I have a TOZ, a Hammerli 150, and a Morini CM84E. All are fine pistols. I wouldn't recommend shooting a semiauto gun as a free pistol although I've done it on several occasions. They just put you at too much of a disadvantage because of their heavy trigger pull and the need to manually load each shot as required by ISSF regulations. Free pistol is best shot with a free pistol.
That having been said, the TOZ is a fine pistol, with an exceptionally adjustable mechanical trigger. It can not only be adjusted in terms of position relative to your finger, but it also is adjustable for draw weigh and draw length (pretravel) which provides for a wide range of different triggering "feels". Overall, this is definitely one of the best mechanical triggers.
The downsides of the TOZ are pretty easily pointed out. The factory grip is good for very little other than firewood, as I have yet to find anybody who's been able to make one fit their hand well, without extensive modification. An aftermarket grip such as those offered by Rink, Morini and Vitarbo is pretty much necessary if you're intending to get serious about shooting.
The other major drawback is in the sight department. Most of the guns I've seen have some visible deficiency in the sights (ie front sight is crooked, rear sight notch isn't square, etc). Most of these little things can either be lived with, or fixed with basic home tools and some patient application of elbow grease.
Mechanical reliability of the TOZ is good. It does require some regular maintenance as there's an amazing amount of crud that gets built up in the action. Maintenance is pretty much limited to a thorough cleaning after every couple of bricks of ammo, and a good scrub of the breach face, extractor and chamber after every match. But you'd do this with any gun you own if you wanted to ensure reliability.
Spare parts are scarce, but Don Nygord can get most parts and carries many in stock. They ain't cheap, though (but this complaint is common to all free pistol parts!).
You'll see the same advice on this board time and time again. Try as many guns as you can, and pick the one that fits you best. Of all the forms of pistols, selection of the best free pistol is the most subjective art. Nobody can advise you better than your own hands, eyes, and scores!
I hope you jump into free pistol shooting with both feet and enjoy it. It's a great sport!
Mark.
.46863.46853
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DelMar
Re: Free Pistols
: Hi There,
: This is the "other" Mark that posts on this board - look for my posts as being distinguished by having a period after my name (just to avoid confusion...). My two cents worth.
Are you the Mark from Florida or is the other Mark?
.46867.46863
: This is the "other" Mark that posts on this board - look for my posts as being distinguished by having a period after my name (just to avoid confusion...). My two cents worth.
Are you the Mark from Florida or is the other Mark?
.46867.46863
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Larry
Re: Free Pistols
I'll throw in with Questor and recommend that you start your journey with a standard pistol, which most of us have on the shelf. Free pistol is a game of self discipline. The ultra-light triggers and long sight radius can get in the way of developing proper sight and trigger control. When you can break 500 with it, then get a Toz. When you can consistently hold the black (520 or so), consider something less forgiving like the Hammerli, although the Toz is capable of winning Olympic gold in the hands of the right shooter.
Now if you can shoot AA class air pistol, then maybe you can go straight to the Toz. Much better shooters than I consider the Toz to be the most forgiving free pistol and the Morini to be the harshest disciplinarian.
The only place that you will find a decent Toz close to the $500 range is to import one into the US from Australia.
: I know nothing about free pistols. I'm considering a used one, as I'd like to keep the expense down. I'll only be shooting 4 or 5 matches a year and my skill level isn't such that I can justify a Morini, which would be my first choice. Is there any drawback to the TOZ? I have been looking at a used Hammerli 106. Would that be a good choice? Is there anyone who would like to sell me a used free pistol for $500 or so?
.46869.46853
Now if you can shoot AA class air pistol, then maybe you can go straight to the Toz. Much better shooters than I consider the Toz to be the most forgiving free pistol and the Morini to be the harshest disciplinarian.
The only place that you will find a decent Toz close to the $500 range is to import one into the US from Australia.
: I know nothing about free pistols. I'm considering a used one, as I'd like to keep the expense down. I'll only be shooting 4 or 5 matches a year and my skill level isn't such that I can justify a Morini, which would be my first choice. Is there any drawback to the TOZ? I have been looking at a used Hammerli 106. Would that be a good choice? Is there anyone who would like to sell me a used free pistol for $500 or so?
.46869.46853
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Jim
Re: Free Pistols
I have extensive experience with the TOZ, but when it came time to pay the piper, I bought a Hammerli 152 w/electronic trigger. The Hammerli 106 is an excellent choice! If it feels good and is priced right (no more than $600, maybe more for a primo example) I'd jump on it. There is a Hammerli 120 on www.gunbroker.com with an opening bid of $385. Some great scores have been shot with these. Very vertical grip, like a semiauto.
Of course, if $$ are a problem, a used Drulov ($150-250) is at least a better choice than a semiauto 22, (which is bound to get discouraging). They are a bit crude and simple, but durable.
Jim
PS: The allure of free pistol, to me, is the quiet discipline. The long sight radius and light trigger can be your best friend or a curse depending on your emotions. Get a free pistol!!
james.buckland-at-converse.edu.46870.46853
Of course, if $$ are a problem, a used Drulov ($150-250) is at least a better choice than a semiauto 22, (which is bound to get discouraging). They are a bit crude and simple, but durable.
Jim
PS: The allure of free pistol, to me, is the quiet discipline. The long sight radius and light trigger can be your best friend or a curse depending on your emotions. Get a free pistol!!
james.buckland-at-converse.edu.46870.46853
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Michael
Re: Free Pistols
Thanks for all the responses. To clarify, I'm not a novice pistol shooter in general. I have been shooting air pistol and bullseye pistol for a number of years with modest success. I think that I may be ready for a dedicated free pistol. On another note, Are aftermarket grips available for older guns like the Hammerli 106 and 104? Are parts still available? Is it likely that a part may break or wear out on a free pistol, or can I expect to shoot it for decades without any mechanical breakdowns?
: I know nothing about free pistols. I'm considering a used one, as I'd like to keep the expense down. I'll only be shooting 4 or 5 matches a year and my skill level isn't such that I can justify a Morini, which would be my first choice. Is there any drawback to the TOZ? I have been looking at a used Hammerli 106. Would that be a good choice? Is there anyone who would like to sell me a used free pistol for $500 or so?
.46877.46853
: I know nothing about free pistols. I'm considering a used one, as I'd like to keep the expense down. I'll only be shooting 4 or 5 matches a year and my skill level isn't such that I can justify a Morini, which would be my first choice. Is there any drawback to the TOZ? I have been looking at a used Hammerli 106. Would that be a good choice? Is there anyone who would like to sell me a used free pistol for $500 or so?
.46877.46853
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Questor
It was just a hypothetical question
I was wondering why using a gun already on-hand wouldn't work for someone just shooting a few matches per year. I realize that it's a disadvantage to be competitive, but at least it gets you started.
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Mark.
Re: Free Pistols
: Are you the Mark from Florida or is the other Mark?
Nope, I'm from the snowy north in Canada.
Mark. (with a period!) ;-)
.46883.46867
Nope, I'm from the snowy north in Canada.
Mark. (with a period!) ;-)
.46883.46867
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Mark.
Re: It was just a hypothetical question
: I was wondering why using a gun already on-hand wouldn't work for someone just shooting a few matches per year. I realize that it's a disadvantage to be competitive, but at least it gets you started.
You're absolutely right - a standard pistol will get you started. Last year we had several new shooters show up at the club, and they started shooting using our club guns, High Standards, Rugers and a Browning Medallist. With these guns their scores stayed in the 300's (indoor, 20 yards). Not very encouraging.
They stuck with it, and the hardcore free pistoliers eventually starting bringing in our "spare" free pistols for them to try out. It was amazing to watch their scores jump up, and to see the big grins on their faces. They became much more consistant with a real free pistol than they ever had been with the standard pistols.
We also have one excellent shooter who had to abandon his pistols in his homeland before emigrating. He uses the club's Browning Medallist and can score in the 520's with it. But that's because he trained with a real free pistol for years (a Toz, as a matter of fact) and mastered the art of sight alignment and trigger squeeze. (He also kicks butt in air pistol with the club's decrepit FWB65. There's simply no match for skill. He could still beat me using a bent straw as a pea-shooter!)
Taking a standard-pistol shooter and asking him/her to shoot free pistol targets with a standard pistol will yield disappointing results. And when folks are disappointed, they generally don't continue in the sport. My contention is that it's far better to loan them a real free pistol and let them get bitten by the bug. But I'm no expert, just a guy who showed up at the range, borrowed a Toz, and now owns three free pistols... ;-)
Mark.
.46884.46880
You're absolutely right - a standard pistol will get you started. Last year we had several new shooters show up at the club, and they started shooting using our club guns, High Standards, Rugers and a Browning Medallist. With these guns their scores stayed in the 300's (indoor, 20 yards). Not very encouraging.
They stuck with it, and the hardcore free pistoliers eventually starting bringing in our "spare" free pistols for them to try out. It was amazing to watch their scores jump up, and to see the big grins on their faces. They became much more consistant with a real free pistol than they ever had been with the standard pistols.
We also have one excellent shooter who had to abandon his pistols in his homeland before emigrating. He uses the club's Browning Medallist and can score in the 520's with it. But that's because he trained with a real free pistol for years (a Toz, as a matter of fact) and mastered the art of sight alignment and trigger squeeze. (He also kicks butt in air pistol with the club's decrepit FWB65. There's simply no match for skill. He could still beat me using a bent straw as a pea-shooter!)
Taking a standard-pistol shooter and asking him/her to shoot free pistol targets with a standard pistol will yield disappointing results. And when folks are disappointed, they generally don't continue in the sport. My contention is that it's far better to loan them a real free pistol and let them get bitten by the bug. But I'm no expert, just a guy who showed up at the range, borrowed a Toz, and now owns three free pistols... ;-)
Mark.
.46884.46880
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Mikael
Re: Free Pistols
Buy a used TOZ. I don´t now the price in the US but i bought mine for 2000 swedish kronor (ca 275$) with a Morini grip. See it like this, the russians use it, so it cant be a bad pistol.
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.46890.46853
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Claudio
Re: Free Pistols
: I know nothing about free pistols. I'm considering a used one, as I'd like to keep the expense down. I'll only be shooting 4 or 5 matches a year and my skill level isn't such that I can justify a Morini, which would be my first choice. Is there any drawback to the TOZ? I have been looking at a used Hammerli 106. Would that be a good choice? Is there anyone who would like to sell me a used free pistol for $500 or so?
.46909.46853
.46909.46853
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Claudio
Re: Free Pistols
I 'll try this again.
The most common and forgiving free pistol is the Vostok and the TOZ35 is their best model. I have an earlier model Vostok Free pistol.
I have researched the Free Pistol question many times since my Walther died. I now am going to buy a Pardini, as I beleive its the best free pistol for the money.
You might want to consider a new Pardini Free Pistol right away and not buy aany used FP's.
If its in your budget, I'd go for the Pardini right away and consider other free pistols when you go expert or master.
incrocci-at-shaw.ca.46910.46909
The most common and forgiving free pistol is the Vostok and the TOZ35 is their best model. I have an earlier model Vostok Free pistol.
I have researched the Free Pistol question many times since my Walther died. I now am going to buy a Pardini, as I beleive its the best free pistol for the money.
You might want to consider a new Pardini Free Pistol right away and not buy aany used FP's.
If its in your budget, I'd go for the Pardini right away and consider other free pistols when you go expert or master.
incrocci-at-shaw.ca.46910.46909