spotting scope question

[Mike Carter]

I've used the Konus 80mm 20-60x zoom since 2012 when I purchased it from CC at Camp Perry. It was big improvement over the 50mm scope I had used for years prior. Always wanted a Kowa but never could justify the extra cost until just recently.
Maybe it's my vision beginning to fade slightly but on shaded targets at 100 yards seeing single bullet holes in the black was not optimal. I had the opportunity to compare mine side by side with a Kowa TSN82 with a 25x LER and the difference was remarkable.
Creedmoor Shooting sports had them on sale bundled with an eyepiece and scope cover for basically $1000.
It arrived yesterday.
I placed a fired A33 target in the shade and set up my Konus beside the Kowa for a side by side comparison. I adjusted the Konus zoom lens to equate to the 25x LER on the Kowa. I also asked my wife to judge the clarity of the two. The Kowa is a hands down winner!
There was one bullet hole out in the white of the target. With the Konus I could tell it was a bullet hole. With the Kowa I could make out the difference shade of lead on the paper inside the hole.

The adage of you get what you pay for is clear in this respect.

Mike Carter

[Leon]

The adage of you get what you pay for is clear in this respect. "

Well Mike, in this case, you actually don't.

The 2 things you need to look for in a spotting scope are -

Coated Bak4 prisms
Use of ED glass ( Extra Low Dispersion )

If you bought a scope with both of those, you would be hard-pressed to distinguish significant differences between a Chinese made scope, and one of the over-priced Eurotrash scopes.

And if you want to make really big savings, purchase a scope directly from the factory and cut out multiple layers of middlemen.

Have a look at AliExpress and BangGood. In a lot of cases you will see scopes identical the big name Euros - because the exact same factory makes them for them as well. No doubt a few extra get "diverted" from the production run and appear with a "different" name on AliExpress, Alibaba and BangGood.

Also, the highly rated, and fabulous, NG scopes are available direct from the factory as well.

[Azmodan]

The adage of you get what you pay for is clear in this respect. "

Well Mike, in this case, you actually don't.

The 2 things you need to look for in a spotting scope are -

Coated Bak4 prisms
Use of ED glass ( Extra Low Dispersion )

If you bought a scope with both of those, you would be hard-pressed to distinguish significant differences between a Chinese made scope, and one of the over-priced Eurotrash scopes.

And if you want to make really big savings, purchase a scope directly from the factory and cut out multiple layers of middlemen.

Have a look at AliExpress and BangGood. In a lot of cases you will see scopes identical the big name Euros - because the exact same factory makes them for them as well. No doubt a few extra get "diverted" from the production run and appear with a "different" name on AliExpress, Alibaba and BangGood.

Also, the highly rated, and fabulous, NG scopes are available direct from the factory as well.

can you give an example link on aliexpress of a scope that meets your requirement?

[Anschutz]

Highly doubtful, especially after he called a Kowa "Eurotrash."
"Odie R."

[Mike Carter]

The adage of you get what you pay for is clear in this respect. "

Well Mike, in this case, you actually don't.

The 2 things you need to look for in a spotting scope are -

Coated Bak4 prisms
Use of ED glass ( Extra Low Dispersion )

If you bought a scope with both of those, you would be hard-pressed to distinguish significant differences between a Chinese made scope, and one of the over-priced Eurotrash scopes.

And if you want to make really big savings, purchase a scope directly from the factory and cut out multiple layers of middlemen.

Have a look at AliExpress and BangGood. In a lot of cases you will see scopes identical the big name Euros - because the exact same factory makes them for them as well. No doubt a few extra get "diverted" from the production run and appear with a "different" name on AliExpress, Alibaba and BangGood.

Also, the highly rated, and fabulous, NG scopes are available direct from the factory as well.

I know what I see. And I have validated it twice.
An impartial, non shooter could see a clear difference between the Kowa and the Kona. I’m sure the Chinese could make a quality spotting scope and probably do. Couldn’t name one off the top of my head.

[Anschutz]

A few months ago, I too compared my spotting scope to a Kowa.

First comparison was in Memphis with one of the older Kowa models owned by one of the club members.

Second comparison was at my local club when one of the guys from Louisiana had his 82 Model. He's primarily a High Power Shooter.

Both are GREAT !!

[rbs]

talk with an avid bird watcher and you will get an education about binoculars and spotting scopes, most have owned several different brands and have looked thru everything under the sun, there are no cheap alternatives to great glass, boils down to what works for you. Ray Charles could see the difference looking thru a Swarovski and a $200 Chinese scope

[Leon]

The adage of you get what you pay for is clear in this respect. "

Well Mike, in this case, you actually don't.

The 2 things you need to look for in a spotting scope are -

Coated Bak4 prisms
Use of ED glass ( Extra Low Dispersion )

If you bought a scope with both of those, you would be hard-pressed to distinguish significant differences between a Chinese made scope, and one of the over-priced Eurotrash scopes.

And if you want to make really big savings, purchase a scope directly from the factory and cut out multiple layers of middlemen.

Have a look at AliExpress and BangGood. In a lot of cases you will see scopes identical the big name Euros - because the exact same factory makes them for them as well. No doubt a few extra get "diverted" from the production run and appear with a "different" name on AliExpress, Alibaba and BangGood.

Also, the highly rated, and fabulous, NG scopes are available direct from the factory as well.

I know what I see. And I have validated it twice.
An impartial, non shooter could see a clear difference between the Kowa and the Kona. I’m sure the Chinese could make a quality spotting scope and probably do. Couldn’t name one off the top of my head.

The Chinese make quite a few of the Kowa models already. I know, because I looked through one yesterday

And they also make all the spotting scopes for Bushnell, Leopold and Vortex, to mention a few.

If you look for Chinese manufacturers of advanced astronomical telescopes, and buy a spotting scope from them, you will be able to take advantage of their deep understanding of advanced optics at a smaller level with one of their spotting scopes.

Rememeber, it wasn't that long ago that "Made in Japan" was a symbol for poor quality junk, and now look where they are now.
Similarly, the Chinese are now on the cusp of that transition from poor to high quality.

[Leon]

talk with an avid bird watcher and you will get an education about binoculars and spotting scopes, most have owned several different brands and have looked thru everything under the sun, there are no cheap alternatives to great glass, boils down to what works for you. Ray Charles could see the difference looking thru a Swarovski and a $200 Chinese scope

Hmm, apples for apples and orangess for oranges.

You would not compare Swarovski with a $200 Chinese scope, but a Chinese $1500 APO Chromatic Fluorite model would give them a run for their money.

As per my previous post, the Chinese already make Bushnell, Leopold, Vortex scopes- and I'm sure for a few high end European brands, who I'm sure would prefer to remain anonymous., as well.

[rbs]

talk with an avid bird watcher and you will get an education about binoculars and spotting scopes, most have owned several different brands and have looked thru everything under the sun, there are no cheap alternatives to great glass, boils down to what works for you. Ray Charles could see the difference looking thru a Swarovski and a $200 Chinese scope

Hmm, apples for apples and orangess for oranges.

You would not compare Swarovski with a $200 Chinese scope, but a Chinese $1500 APO Chromatic Fluorite model would give them a run for their money.

As per my previous post, the Chinese already make Bushnell, Leopold, Vortex scopes- and I'm sure for a few high end European brands, who I'm sure would prefer to remain anonymous., as well.

Leon, nodody is criticizing your choice of optics, if you're happy that's all that matters. Get back with us in a couple of years, sometimes the flaws are exposed after use. And, "Rememeber, it wasn't that long ago that "Made in Japan" was a symbol for poor quality junk, and now look where they are now.
Similarly, the Chinese are now on the cusp of that transition from poor to high quality." Japan has been a leader in optical quality more than a "few years" wouldn't you agree?

[Mike Carter]

My particular purchase of the scope body and eye piece are "Made in Japan".
It is totally plausible that internal components could be manufactured in China, but I am reasonably certain that is not the case for the TSN82SV and LER 25x eye piece.

So for the OP who was looking for a quality scope, I stand by my recommendation. The 80mm Kowa that I purchased from Creedmoor Sports is superior to the 80mm Konus that I purchased from Champions Choice. Creedmoor had the scope body, eye piece and their cover bundled and on sale. As I am a resident of TN the savings on sales tax alone was over $100. I had made up my mind to purchase this combination about a month ago and Creedmoor Sports made a timely offer.

[Leon]

When I first started Fullbore Rifle shooting many years ago, I bought a new Kowa Prominar scope - and I was disappointed with it. But time moves on and your current experience may differ from mine.

If you want a scope that provides the most bang for your buck, have a look at these.


https://www.amazon.com/Nikon-Prostaff-P ... merReviews


https://www.amazon.com/Vortex-Optics-Sp ... oto&sr=1-3

https://www.amazon.com/Gosky-20-60x80-F ... to_dp&th=1

[Anschutz]

I've a Vortex. While it's high quality, it still doesn't meet the quality of the Kowa.

[Leon]

This is another really good one.....Maybe the best, according to the prestigious American Birding Association.


A review in Birding, the magazine of the American Birding Association said the optically identical but straight-through viewing Pentax PF-80ED had "the brightest, sharpest, easiest view of the bird currently available in any conventional spotting scope . .

[rbs]

This is another really good one.....Maybe the best, according to the prestigious American Birding Association.


A review in Birding, the magazine of the American Birding Association said the optically identical but straight-through viewing Pentax PF-80ED had "the brightest, sharpest, easiest view of the bird currently available in any conventional spotting scope . .

I think that review has some age on it, as I owned and used a Pentax PF-80ED, the plus side of it was the optics were good, the eyepiece was setup to take telescope eyepieces, but the coating on the objective lens inter surface started flaking off and the adjusting mechanism got sloppy. I sent the scope in for repair, the lens was replaced and the focusing mechanism was still sloppy, I sold it and would not recommend it.