ammo testing
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
ammo testing
I would like to get a better idea of the accuracy of my biathlon rifle. I have never mounted it in a rest and checked how it groups. In the past I have run various brands of ammunition through it and been rather disappointed with the results, but that may be because I did it back to back without allowing for the effects of the different waxes (and it was inexpensive ammo). I'm not looking for absolute accuracy, but more of an idea of what's me and what is the rifle. Does it make any sense to buy a few boxes of top grade ammunition to test? I'm not testing lots and buying in bulk so will I just get random data?
Re: ammo testing
Pcw,
Yes, you may get random data, but 0.22 ammunition isn't so expensive that you can't try. I would not put money on finding the perfect match for your barrel in a few randomly chosen boxes though. Although price, QC and accuracy are related, even top grade ammo varies a little between batches; this is why so many prone and position shooters batch test. However, providing none is a total stinker, you may see an improvement. Personally I'd try 2nd tier ammo, Eley Match, Lapua Centre-X myself; it's usually made to the same recipe as top grade, but slightly lower QC. For the purpose of proving if it's you or the rifle it will be plenty accurate, and cheaper.
This may be obvious, but don't underestimate the power of a thorough clean, especially the bore (break out the bronze brush and solvent), and a service. Don't forget to re-torque the bedding screws.
With all that said, what are you trying to achieve? If you are currently using entry level target ammo, or even non-match SV, then it's quite likely that proper match grade ammo will deliver much better results. But how does this help? Are you planning to pick a new brand based on the test, or just go back to the old stuff? The latter doesn't sound like a recipe for success; sure Match shoots itty bitty groups, but that's irrelevant if you're shooting T22 . Surely if you go to the effort of testing, why not combine that with a bulk purchase?
Yes, you may get random data, but 0.22 ammunition isn't so expensive that you can't try. I would not put money on finding the perfect match for your barrel in a few randomly chosen boxes though. Although price, QC and accuracy are related, even top grade ammo varies a little between batches; this is why so many prone and position shooters batch test. However, providing none is a total stinker, you may see an improvement. Personally I'd try 2nd tier ammo, Eley Match, Lapua Centre-X myself; it's usually made to the same recipe as top grade, but slightly lower QC. For the purpose of proving if it's you or the rifle it will be plenty accurate, and cheaper.
This may be obvious, but don't underestimate the power of a thorough clean, especially the bore (break out the bronze brush and solvent), and a service. Don't forget to re-torque the bedding screws.
With all that said, what are you trying to achieve? If you are currently using entry level target ammo, or even non-match SV, then it's quite likely that proper match grade ammo will deliver much better results. But how does this help? Are you planning to pick a new brand based on the test, or just go back to the old stuff? The latter doesn't sound like a recipe for success; sure Match shoots itty bitty groups, but that's irrelevant if you're shooting T22 . Surely if you go to the effort of testing, why not combine that with a bulk purchase?
Last edited by Tim S on Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:20 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: ammo testing
look at this:
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/7/1 ... mpetitors/
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/7/1 ... mpetitors/
Hammer to shape, file to fit, paint to match...
Re: ammo testing
Since I can not reload for Rim Fire, I go through quite a bit of testing for the correct ammo for each of my Bench Rest Rim Fire Rifles, though not as much for my target rim fire pistols.
I buy match grade ammo, but I only buy a few boxes of each type and sometimes multiple lot numbers, but in either case only if the supplier has a large inventory of the lot numbers that I will be buying to test. No sense finding out the best Brand, Type and Lot number to find out you can't buy any more in that lot.
I thank sort the ammo with a rim thickness gauge and then weigh sort the batches that have been rim sorted. That it is off to the range on a no wind day with my SEB NEO Rest and fire test targets. Firing is done by fouling the barrel and than shooting with barrel cooling time for one test batch, then gun gets cleaned and then fouled and the next batch gets test fired an on the same way for all batches I am testing.
When I find what works the best, I call the supplier and buy a bunch of that lot .
Bob
I buy match grade ammo, but I only buy a few boxes of each type and sometimes multiple lot numbers, but in either case only if the supplier has a large inventory of the lot numbers that I will be buying to test. No sense finding out the best Brand, Type and Lot number to find out you can't buy any more in that lot.
I thank sort the ammo with a rim thickness gauge and then weigh sort the batches that have been rim sorted. That it is off to the range on a no wind day with my SEB NEO Rest and fire test targets. Firing is done by fouling the barrel and than shooting with barrel cooling time for one test batch, then gun gets cleaned and then fouled and the next batch gets test fired an on the same way for all batches I am testing.
When I find what works the best, I call the supplier and buy a bunch of that lot .
Bob
-
proneshooter
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:09 pm
- Location: Charleston, S.C.
Re: ammo testing
I use a return to battery rest that the gun is mounted to using the accessory rail. The rest is clamped to a concrete bench and I fire ten shot test groups at fifty yards on a mega link target. If I change ammo brands I clean the bore and then fire fouling shots. Usually go through at least ten different lots. I also use this rig indoors at ten meters to test pellets.
Re: ammo testing
I guess what I'm trying to figure is when the shot I call as a 10 scopes out as a 6, is it me or the ammunition. I have a Savage mkii that at times seems to be more accurate than the Anschutz. It's possible, the Anschutz is a older club rifle that has seen it's use over the years. Groups with the Anschutz are larger than I would expect even though I'm only using Eley Target or something comparable. In biathlon, a 6 is as good as a 9 ("I don't mind, I don't mind"), so absolute accuracy is not that important and I don't think I'll ever spend the money on top tier ammunition. So what I'm looking for is a general idea of the rifles accuracy.
Re: ammo testing
Can you shoot better groups with your MK II than with your Anschutz? Try it. Spend some time on the bench with both rifles and a variety of ammo. If you shoot the MK II noticeably better, you'll have answered the question whether it is you or the rifle.
I would recommend trying some SK Standard+, if you can get it.
I would recommend trying some SK Standard+, if you can get it.
Re: ammo testing
GOVTMODEL posted many thoughtful and informative pieces on the subject of ammo testing. Do your homework.
Re: ammo testing
I guess I'm not expressing myself well enough. I have read plenty of articles and posts about the proper and detailed methods of ammunition testing. That's not what I'm asking about. The rifle I have is an older 1827 that was part of a club program and purchased from one of our junior World Cup skiers when he purchased a new rifle to compete as a senior. I have been disappointed in its accuracy. I don't think the previous owner would have sold it if it were extremely accurate. I use it for masters biathlon where I don't have the fitness to be competitive so I focus on my shooting. I will never buy top tier ammunition for it because at my level it doesn't matter. I would like to have a better idea of just how accurate it is and I have thought of buying 2nd tier ammunition and testing on a bench. My question is whether the results would be simply random data (ie. this box of SK looks good, that box of Lapua doesn't). So is it worth buy 2nd tier ammo and testing or would the money be better spent elsewhere?
Re: ammo testing
I use it for masters biathlon where I don't have the fitness to be competitive so I focus on my shooting.
These seem to be contradictory. First you say you can't be competitive, so you want to focus on your shooting. Then you say you don't wan to focus on your shooting (by at least buying one box of "top tier" ammo to test the accuracy of the rifle).I will never buy top tier ammunition for it because at my level it doesn't matter.
I you are just in it for fun (nothing wrong with that), forget about top accuracy and go play. The difference between the "top" ammo and a couple steps down is more in the number of inconsistent shots than in relative group sizes.
Re: ammo testing
Pcw,
Not everyone wants to be uber competitive, and you pay for your ammunition, not us.
If you just want to prove to yourself that the Anschutz isn't knackered, then a few boxes of Match or Centre-X will give you a good idea; it may not produce the best ever, but I don't think that's what you want. A random box of Tenex, or Midas might beat those, but who knows?
However, if you don't plan to shoot that higher grade regularly, you may face the same issues. Including your regular ammo in the test will give you data that's more relevant.
Not everyone wants to be uber competitive, and you pay for your ammunition, not us.
If you just want to prove to yourself that the Anschutz isn't knackered, then a few boxes of Match or Centre-X will give you a good idea; it may not produce the best ever, but I don't think that's what you want. A random box of Tenex, or Midas might beat those, but who knows?
However, if you don't plan to shoot that higher grade regularly, you may face the same issues. Including your regular ammo in the test will give you data that's more relevant.
Re: ammo testing
Just thinking out loud for a moment......
These guns are designed to be shot cold. You can test them in a shirt sleeve environment, but it gets hard to tell where your rifle sits in the general population because you don't have comparison data available to you.
22 ammunition gets funny as the temperature drops. Biathlon ammo is made to function when cold and run of the mill stuff we use might have glaring issues.......
Since there are so many moving parts here, I would suggest bundling the rifle to the Eley test tunnel..... They have tested and made ammunition recommendations on enough of these to know where your gun sits in the population.... If it's average or better, move on because it isn't holding you back..... Mere mortals can't shoot good enough to exploit the benefits of a truly stunningly good rifle and avoiding lemons gets you almost every benefit you can use..... And I have never seen an Anchutz lemon....
These guns are designed to be shot cold. You can test them in a shirt sleeve environment, but it gets hard to tell where your rifle sits in the general population because you don't have comparison data available to you.
22 ammunition gets funny as the temperature drops. Biathlon ammo is made to function when cold and run of the mill stuff we use might have glaring issues.......
Since there are so many moving parts here, I would suggest bundling the rifle to the Eley test tunnel..... They have tested and made ammunition recommendations on enough of these to know where your gun sits in the population.... If it's average or better, move on because it isn't holding you back..... Mere mortals can't shoot good enough to exploit the benefits of a truly stunningly good rifle and avoiding lemons gets you almost every benefit you can use..... And I have never seen an Anchutz lemon....
Re: ammo testing
Hey Guys,
Thanks for the responses. Pat, you make a good point, what I wrote is somewhat contradictory. I can't be competitive in the ski race, but if I clean all my targets, I'm happy. So I really am just playing at it. All the same, I'm happier if I play well. If the rifle is somewhat worn, I can accept that without feeling like I have to do anything about it. Because I simply enjoy the sport and have no particular goals other than to clean the targets, I don't feel a need to invest in better equipment. The biathlon community is funny in the way that they spend more time worrying about the time it take to get in and out of the range than they do about the shooting itself (it is a race after all). Coming from a precision background I still struggle with coaches telling me not to spend time adjusting my feet and trigger hand. They don't complain about my shooting though.
Thanks for the responses. Pat, you make a good point, what I wrote is somewhat contradictory. I can't be competitive in the ski race, but if I clean all my targets, I'm happy. So I really am just playing at it. All the same, I'm happier if I play well. If the rifle is somewhat worn, I can accept that without feeling like I have to do anything about it. Because I simply enjoy the sport and have no particular goals other than to clean the targets, I don't feel a need to invest in better equipment. The biathlon community is funny in the way that they spend more time worrying about the time it take to get in and out of the range than they do about the shooting itself (it is a race after all). Coming from a precision background I still struggle with coaches telling me not to spend time adjusting my feet and trigger hand. They don't complain about my shooting though.
Re: ammo testing
Sent you a PM regarding ammo and servicing your rifle.