10m only soon?

[ruig]

The bidding process for 2021-2024.

https://www.issf-sports.org/getfile.asp ... 1-2024.pdf

Decision after Tokyo expected?
No real trend changes in public interest / viewers ===> loss of all 25m and 50m very soon?

[BobGee]

Wow! Even our own international governing body is shutting us down!

This is going to to make it even more difficult for us in Australia to continue to justify, to a hostile government, that we should be allowed to continue to shoot .22 and c/f at 25m and 50m.

I just might need to switch to IPSC, which seems to have a more muscular approach to protecting its turf.

Bob

[David Levene]

As I read it, at least it will open up World Cups to the October-February period. It will also mean that countries with firearms restrictions (like the UK) will be able to bid for stand alone World Cups.

I am certain that the traditional World Cup venues will still hold 25m & 50m events.

[BobGee]

David,

I’d like to believe you that "the traditional World Cup venues will still hold 25m & 50m events" but I won’t be holding my breath. The document quite clearly said 10m ONLY.

Bob

[David Levene]

The document quite clearly said 10m ONLY.

"Exactly. "can include 10m events only".

It does not say "may only include 10m events" or "may include only 10m events".

[BobGee]

My interpretation would be: "can only include 10m events” otherwise why would they be definitive and not leave it open to the bidders to decide what they wanted to offer. They could have said "must include 10m events as a minimum".

Still not holding my breath.

Bob

[David Levene]

We must remember that the application form includes boxes asking which distances you are applying for, including 25m & 50m.

I might be wrong, but really don't think I am.

[ruig]

I understand it as follows:

"Make your bid for any events you want, but don't be surprised if after 1.1.2021 we have 10m olympic disciplines only".

[Abi]

The way I read this is: you can hold a World Cup that only includes 10m events

Not, World Cup is now only 10m.

[Leon]

David,

I’d like to believe you that "the traditional World Cup venues will still hold 25m & 50m events" but I won’t be holding my breath. The document quite clearly said 10m ONLY.

Bob

Similarly to what has just happened for the Commonwealth Games, It is likely that the up&coming shooting powerhouse, India, will lean on them and this decision will be reversed

[Hemmers]

The document quite clearly said 10m ONLY.

"Exactly. "can include 10m events only".

It does not say "may only include 10m events" or "may include only 10m events".

I would gently suggest that this level of nuance may have passed by the Russian Secretary General working in Germany, outputting translated releases in English.

Given the general standard/style/tenor of English on the ISSF News Pages, I wouldn't read too much into the "may/can" distinction. Although I similarly had concerns initially, on reflection there are many Quota events which are limited-discipline and this may be an attempt by the ISSF to allow (say) the UK or Japan to host a limited-discipline World Cup in the knowledge that they can allocate 25/50m quotas via WCh, Regional/Continental Games and all-discipline World Cups like Munich.

That being said, I retain all my scepticism of the general direction of the ISSF, the gutting of the CWG programme and generally trying to force the (compromised) Olympic Programme into events where it is not necessary.

[Alexander]

Ahem.
Firstly, Ruig is not a native English speaker (and neither am I), which is why our English prowess obviously surpasses that of Bob Gee.

Secondly, I share his abstract concern. The flame writing had appeared on the wall when the first continental championships "10 metres only" (as opposed to comprehensive continental championships) had been conducted.

Thirdly, the suggested replacement wording is NOT better or less misleading than the original.

Lastly, it is worth a discussion whether any (ahem) world cup ought to comprise all disciplines necessarily. It is not done for shotgun, it is not done for fullbore rifle (ISSF 300 metres), so why mandate a necessary junctim of 10 metres and 25 metres / 50 metres ?

Alexander

[BobGee]

Dear Alexander,

If the ISSF chooses to issue its communiques in English then it has a responsibility to use it correctly. That said, I don’t hold to the belief that there is any erroneous use of English in this request for bids, but there is a lack of clarity of meaning.

The ISSF has been disappointing over the pistol shooting disciplines. The 50m event was ditched from the Olympic program on the understanding that it would continue to feature in ISSF sponsored World Cups and Championships. Alas, it look as though they have let us down yet again. I am hopeful that Hemmers interpretation might be correct.

Bob

[JamesHH]

They probably meant 'may' instead of 'can', this sort of thing is lost translating from German to English, 'can' being ambiguous.
If they'd meant 'must' they would probably have said it, as the German word is the same - 'musst'
Most likely they meant 'konnt' which can be translated as 'can' or 'to be able to'.

Thats my guess anyway.

Writing work emails in English which are unambiguous to American, German, French and Japanese readers at the same time is a lot of fun.
Good English practice, not using the same word twice if you can pick a different one, confuses the hell out of Germans.

[BobGee]

"konnt". Now that's an interesting word...!

[ruig]

Entire ISSF backend team now is from Russia (for example... the same person from Moscow - assistant of Russian Shooting Union - updates website of RSU and ISSF). Of course isn't English native speaker. We all have troubles to 100% understand the meaning of all ISSF news :-(

[JamesHH]

Also the difference between 'can be only' and 'can only be'.

How many of the decision makers are non-german?

[Modena]

The ISSF has been disappointing over the pistol shooting disciplines. The 50m event was ditched from the Olympic program on the understanding that it would continue to feature in ISSF sponsored World Cups and Championships. Alas, it look as though they have let us down yet again. I am hopeful that Hemmers interpretation might be correct.

This is something I have never understood. Just because 50M prone and free pistol were removed from the Olympics, why were they removed from World Cups, and why were finals procedures removed from the rules? Bring them both back to the world cup programme I say !

[Xman]

Bring on the laser guns

Bring on the laser guns anschutz has already developed one I’m sure the rest of The industry will soon follow

[BobGee]

Bring on the laser guns anschutz has already developed one I’m sure the rest of The industry will soon follow

Get the hence, Satan!