: Richard:
: How do you keep the cost so low? According to the USA Shooting web site, the cost per match per competitor is $6.
: Here, the matches cost $8, this defrays the cost of targets, postage, range fees, and equipment such as portable lights and extension cords. There is no profit to the match organizer.
: For a competitor who is not a member of USA Shooting, we would have to add $6 per match, plus approximately $1 to defray the cost of annual club affiliation with USA Shooting. In addition, each competitor would have to pay an annual membership fee of $35 to USA Shooting.
: For a three-match-per-year competitor, this raises the cost per match from $8 to $27. That's a lot of money to have somebody track your classification.
: Most of the shooters in these matches are already NRA memebers, so another option is to sanction through the NRA, which whould at least eliminate the need for a second membership.
: I'm just running the numbers and I find them unfavorable.
: Rudy
You people are crying about a few $'s to shoot matches. Shooting is still, after you purchase the equipment, one of the cheapest sports to take part in that there is. I am glad I am not a horse person or a tennis or golf person. If you don't want to join USAS or NRA to shoot matches, then just get a few pals together and go out in the back yard and shoot cans or bottle caps. You enter a match to prove something to yourself, if not others around you. Quit bitching and join and compete. Can't hurt, and you may actually improve!!!
.45642.45630
PTO Question
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
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RogerR
Re: Another question, another answer
Yes, and I think the answer you got was also with the best intentions. And what he was trying to point out was that the dolllar and cents of the event is a non issue, but rather a an excuse for what is still a unfornately not conisdered a real shooting sport.
: The reason for the original post was motivated by a desire to accommodate the best shooters while maintaining and perhaps increasing participation by the rest. If that is, in your opinion, blather, then further correspondence between us serves no constructive purpose.
.45644.45640
: The reason for the original post was motivated by a desire to accommodate the best shooters while maintaining and perhaps increasing participation by the rest. If that is, in your opinion, blather, then further correspondence between us serves no constructive purpose.
.45644.45640
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pilkguns
hmmmm this brings up a intersesting thought
well I think there are two sides to this coin, there are those that think that air pistol is not "real" shooting and then there are those that have tried and think it is too hard and stick with bullseye. Back when I serioulsy was around BE events around the country I knew many BE who were very competive in BE but thought International required too much work to be competitive. In some part this is true, and in some part the equipment is part of the problem. what do I mean by that.... well the barrels are too long,
Yep the barrels are too long for the average competitor. Especially new guys but even old hands. The problem is that long sight radius (compared to the average American target pistols) that makes their hold look like crap, and then they are fighting all the more to make it smooth out and that of course only makes it get worse.
so they don't do as well as they think they should (compared to their bullseye scores) and so in a few months time the AP gets dropped because they are frustrated with lack of progress or regress of what they thought their shooting ability was simply because of that long sight radius. If the sights were moved back to typical American distance, then their hold would look much more solid and they would have the confidence to break the shot in a timely manner. .
well this is kindof off the top of my head,.... I let you guys chew on this while I go off to sleep now
: Yes, and I think the answer you got was also with the best intentions. And what he was trying to point out was that the dolllar and cents of the event is a non issue, but rather a an excuse for what is still a unfornately not conisdered a real shooting sport.
: : The reason for the original post was motivated by a desire to accommodate the best shooters while maintaining and perhaps increasing participation by the rest. If that is, in your opinion, blather, then further correspondence between us serves no constructive purpose.
.45645.45644
Yep the barrels are too long for the average competitor. Especially new guys but even old hands. The problem is that long sight radius (compared to the average American target pistols) that makes their hold look like crap, and then they are fighting all the more to make it smooth out and that of course only makes it get worse.
so they don't do as well as they think they should (compared to their bullseye scores) and so in a few months time the AP gets dropped because they are frustrated with lack of progress or regress of what they thought their shooting ability was simply because of that long sight radius. If the sights were moved back to typical American distance, then their hold would look much more solid and they would have the confidence to break the shot in a timely manner. .
well this is kindof off the top of my head,.... I let you guys chew on this while I go off to sleep now
: Yes, and I think the answer you got was also with the best intentions. And what he was trying to point out was that the dolllar and cents of the event is a non issue, but rather a an excuse for what is still a unfornately not conisdered a real shooting sport.
: : The reason for the original post was motivated by a desire to accommodate the best shooters while maintaining and perhaps increasing participation by the rest. If that is, in your opinion, blather, then further correspondence between us serves no constructive purpose.
.45645.45644
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Mark P.
Why NRA, USPSA, etc. membership is worth more than USAS memb
All these comparisons of membership fees and match costs are amusing, when looked at in a vacuum, but I think USAS has some real problems showing that they provide a benefit worthy of the price they charge. Sure the total costs of shooting 10m air pistol maybe cheaper, but I doubt most people would pay for an organization if they could still shoot without joining unless it is providing some appreciable benefit...USAS seems a little light on these.
With USPSA, you get great club support for new clubs, you get a good magazine with reviews of interesting matches, pretty good reviews of products and occasional informative gunsmithing articles as well as some useful sport-related advertising. You also have a well organized set of Areas and Sections throughout the U.S. where a major shooting match WILL be set up and shot every year (Area championships). You also have a national classification system where everyone can have a classification and even look up how they compare to everyone else (if you get the paper copy of the classification results). USPSA probably has an unfair advantage compared to USAS because their matches can give away substantial gun and cash prizes.
With NRA, you get one of a few different magazines, you get a number of matches all over the country, pretty good club support (especially with bullseye, but not so much with action pistol), and a pretty good classification system. There are also a number of extra benefits to being an NRA member, such as free insurance for theft/loss/destruction of your firearms, discounts on hotels and rental cars, occasional discounts on products and services, etc. Plus, you have the benefit of knowing you're supporting an organization that protects your second amendment rights, without which, you wouldn't be shooting anything (see UK and Australia).
With USAS, you get what's basically a mediocre newsletter, a couple of stickers, a classification system that is practically useless (I can't look mine up...in fact, I forgot what class I am). You have virtually no matches unless you're lucky to be in a certain area. When I lived in Fairfax, VA, the closest matches were the *rare* match down near North Carolina or the matches in upstate New York. Even when there are matches, you often won't know about them because they're not posted online. I just saw that the PTO in Austin was posted not too long ago. I also hear there's supposed to be a match (maybe PTO) at Texas A&M in College Station on 11/22 - 11/23, but it's not posted. I just wasn't seeing very much benefit while I was a member, so I just let my membership lapse...I just can't see much of a reason to renew.
If it was for promotion of the sport, etc....maybe, but I don't get the feeling USAS is even doing that, at least in the pistol events. I know, people are going to say, "but what are YOU doing to promote the sport..." Sorry folks, but I'm a full time grad student. I've helped set up USPSA, NRA Action Pistol, and a High School Rifle Team. As it is, I'm trying to help get some sort of a shooting club going at my university, but I can't run matches. I don't see USAS at shooting matches of other disciplines in order to entice people to join (though I heard Pilkington Equipment made it out to Bianchi), or striving to get the word out in other mainstream gun magazines, or other efforts to promote the sport. If I knew USAS was even paying someone to run matches in areas where there weren't club matches in order to promote the sport it might be worth it, but as it is, I don't see a reason to renew.
.45647.45606
With USPSA, you get great club support for new clubs, you get a good magazine with reviews of interesting matches, pretty good reviews of products and occasional informative gunsmithing articles as well as some useful sport-related advertising. You also have a well organized set of Areas and Sections throughout the U.S. where a major shooting match WILL be set up and shot every year (Area championships). You also have a national classification system where everyone can have a classification and even look up how they compare to everyone else (if you get the paper copy of the classification results). USPSA probably has an unfair advantage compared to USAS because their matches can give away substantial gun and cash prizes.
With NRA, you get one of a few different magazines, you get a number of matches all over the country, pretty good club support (especially with bullseye, but not so much with action pistol), and a pretty good classification system. There are also a number of extra benefits to being an NRA member, such as free insurance for theft/loss/destruction of your firearms, discounts on hotels and rental cars, occasional discounts on products and services, etc. Plus, you have the benefit of knowing you're supporting an organization that protects your second amendment rights, without which, you wouldn't be shooting anything (see UK and Australia).
With USAS, you get what's basically a mediocre newsletter, a couple of stickers, a classification system that is practically useless (I can't look mine up...in fact, I forgot what class I am). You have virtually no matches unless you're lucky to be in a certain area. When I lived in Fairfax, VA, the closest matches were the *rare* match down near North Carolina or the matches in upstate New York. Even when there are matches, you often won't know about them because they're not posted online. I just saw that the PTO in Austin was posted not too long ago. I also hear there's supposed to be a match (maybe PTO) at Texas A&M in College Station on 11/22 - 11/23, but it's not posted. I just wasn't seeing very much benefit while I was a member, so I just let my membership lapse...I just can't see much of a reason to renew.
If it was for promotion of the sport, etc....maybe, but I don't get the feeling USAS is even doing that, at least in the pistol events. I know, people are going to say, "but what are YOU doing to promote the sport..." Sorry folks, but I'm a full time grad student. I've helped set up USPSA, NRA Action Pistol, and a High School Rifle Team. As it is, I'm trying to help get some sort of a shooting club going at my university, but I can't run matches. I don't see USAS at shooting matches of other disciplines in order to entice people to join (though I heard Pilkington Equipment made it out to Bianchi), or striving to get the word out in other mainstream gun magazines, or other efforts to promote the sport. If I knew USAS was even paying someone to run matches in areas where there weren't club matches in order to promote the sport it might be worth it, but as it is, I don't see a reason to renew.
.45647.45606
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Mike McDaniel
Quite possibly true
I suspect that there are several factors involved.
First, AP is not macho. Precision shooting in general has little appeal to the big bang crowd, and AP is both precise and "tame".
Second, the international disciplines require iron sights. Bullseye and half of IPSC have gone to optical sights. Iron is traditional, optics are more forgiving of eyesight problems - and of a shortage of concentration.
Third, I've noticed a tendency in a lot of people to run in terror from competition - and the higher the level of competition, the faster they run. People who will plink all day won't shoot in a local match. People who will shoot in a local match won't shoot in regional competition. And so on. Shoot any of the international events, and you wind up shooting PTOs pretty quickly - and the road to the Olympic Games is open. Steep and rocky, but open.
We have the same problem with the International Muzzle-Loading Team - lots of people shoot black powder, and more than a few have the skill to be competitive, but very few have the moxie to play in the big league.
: well I think there are two sides to this coin, there are those that think that air pistol is not "real" shooting and then there are those that have tried and think it is too hard and stick with bullseye. Back when I serioulsy was around BE events around the country I knew many BE who were very competive in BE but thought International required too much work to be competitive. In some part this is true, and in some part the equipment is part of the problem. what do I mean by that.... well the barrels are too long,
: Yep the barrels are too long for the average competitor. Especially new guys but even old hands. The problem is that long sight radius (compared to the average American target pistols) that makes their hold look like crap, and then they are fighting all the more to make it smooth out and that of course only makes it get worse.
: so they don't do as well as they think they should (compared to their bullseye scores) and so in a few months time the AP gets dropped because they are frustrated with lack of progress or regress of what they thought their shooting ability was simply because of that long sight radius. If the sights were moved back to typical American distance, then their hold would look much more solid and they would have the confidence to break the shot in a timely manner. .
: well this is kindof off the top of my head,.... I let you guys chew on this while I go off to sleep now
HMSLion-at-aol.com.45660.45645
First, AP is not macho. Precision shooting in general has little appeal to the big bang crowd, and AP is both precise and "tame".
Second, the international disciplines require iron sights. Bullseye and half of IPSC have gone to optical sights. Iron is traditional, optics are more forgiving of eyesight problems - and of a shortage of concentration.
Third, I've noticed a tendency in a lot of people to run in terror from competition - and the higher the level of competition, the faster they run. People who will plink all day won't shoot in a local match. People who will shoot in a local match won't shoot in regional competition. And so on. Shoot any of the international events, and you wind up shooting PTOs pretty quickly - and the road to the Olympic Games is open. Steep and rocky, but open.
We have the same problem with the International Muzzle-Loading Team - lots of people shoot black powder, and more than a few have the skill to be competitive, but very few have the moxie to play in the big league.
: well I think there are two sides to this coin, there are those that think that air pistol is not "real" shooting and then there are those that have tried and think it is too hard and stick with bullseye. Back when I serioulsy was around BE events around the country I knew many BE who were very competive in BE but thought International required too much work to be competitive. In some part this is true, and in some part the equipment is part of the problem. what do I mean by that.... well the barrels are too long,
: Yep the barrels are too long for the average competitor. Especially new guys but even old hands. The problem is that long sight radius (compared to the average American target pistols) that makes their hold look like crap, and then they are fighting all the more to make it smooth out and that of course only makes it get worse.
: so they don't do as well as they think they should (compared to their bullseye scores) and so in a few months time the AP gets dropped because they are frustrated with lack of progress or regress of what they thought their shooting ability was simply because of that long sight radius. If the sights were moved back to typical American distance, then their hold would look much more solid and they would have the confidence to break the shot in a timely manner. .
: well this is kindof off the top of my head,.... I let you guys chew on this while I go off to sleep now
HMSLion-at-aol.com.45660.45645
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Richard Ashmore
Re: PTO Question
We have a pretty good selection of events in this area. Match fes are just not an issue. The commuting area for shooters here runs from Scarborough, Maine to Wallingford, CT. After making that drive another $6 just doesn't matter.
govtmodel-at-budweiser.com.45651.45606
govtmodel-at-budweiser.com.45651.45606
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Rodm
Re: Another question, another answer
Lets look at that $20 or even $45 for a BE match plus the ammo. I don't know about you and earlier estimates of the cost of ammo but I pay around $2.50 for the cost of a .22 match and my costs of reloading for CF and .45 would be less. The cost of reloading equipment is a one time cost that can be retreeved when you quit and sell your equipment. Now lest compare the VALUE of a $45 2700 match with that of a $12 sanctioned AP match. In the 2700 you have 16 events, or less than $3.00 per event, the oppertunity to do well enough to win in your class in all the events, and the oppertunity to win something of value, like $(I use to count on taking home more that the cost of the match when I was shooting BE). It take all day and gives a lot of time to BS and relax with the other competitors. An AP match cost $6.00 just to be entered in a sanctioned event, not counting the match fees for the sponsor. That is twice the cost per event without the even covering the cost to sponsor the match, so the cost goes up to more than 4 times the cost of a BE match. An not to forget the value of the BS time, IMHO it seems that the competitors arive somewhere in the half hour before their match. and after the match they are done, wait around for their scores to be posted and than wander off. Fulfills the need but still less of it.
Now here I am comparing Value and to keep the value in line we may need to drop the AP PTO in favor of an unsanctioned match. Now if you can set it up to include FP. Std, and CF so you spread the cost of the sanctioning I would be happy to pay the added amount.
My $0.02 worth
Rodm
: Rudy
: You have me rolling on the floor with laughter. I hear the same blather here in Alaska. For a 2700 add up the numbers. $20 for entry fees, $35 for NRA membership plus the book. Then add to that the cost of just the ammo. 90 rounds of .22 assuming just run of the mill target ammo $6, 180 rounds of center fire, at least $25 plus the sighters so figure about $35 for ammo in total. That first 2700 costs the shooter $120 each year. Additional matches are over $50 apiece. Not to mention time spent on the reloading bench, which isn't free either by the way ;~)
: The first AP PTO is going to cost $35 for the membership, $6 for the entry fee plus your club fee of say $5. Ammo for 60 shots is going to be about $1! Total for the first AP match of the season $42, each additional match ~ $12
: Now which match is Expensive??? Does this mean I am against Bullseye? Nope, but don't complain about the costs of shooting AP if you accept the very high cost of B.E. : Here, a 2700 is $20 and it is highly regarded as a game. Indoor 1800s are also $20. It's a heck of a deal.
: : Air pistol just doesn't get the respect it deserves. I think it may be because the options for firearms games are so good. Action pistol and bullseye dominate. And really, they should. The facilities here are so good and the dedication is so high.
: : We have one of the best shooting facilities in the country in this state and there wasn't enough interest in air pistol last year to make a quorum of volunteers to run a state championship. What state are you in? I'm in Minnesota. I'd like to know more about how your club operates.
ramadsen-at-iname.com.45658.45638
Now here I am comparing Value and to keep the value in line we may need to drop the AP PTO in favor of an unsanctioned match. Now if you can set it up to include FP. Std, and CF so you spread the cost of the sanctioning I would be happy to pay the added amount.
My $0.02 worth
Rodm
: Rudy
: You have me rolling on the floor with laughter. I hear the same blather here in Alaska. For a 2700 add up the numbers. $20 for entry fees, $35 for NRA membership plus the book. Then add to that the cost of just the ammo. 90 rounds of .22 assuming just run of the mill target ammo $6, 180 rounds of center fire, at least $25 plus the sighters so figure about $35 for ammo in total. That first 2700 costs the shooter $120 each year. Additional matches are over $50 apiece. Not to mention time spent on the reloading bench, which isn't free either by the way ;~)
: The first AP PTO is going to cost $35 for the membership, $6 for the entry fee plus your club fee of say $5. Ammo for 60 shots is going to be about $1! Total for the first AP match of the season $42, each additional match ~ $12
: Now which match is Expensive??? Does this mean I am against Bullseye? Nope, but don't complain about the costs of shooting AP if you accept the very high cost of B.E. : Here, a 2700 is $20 and it is highly regarded as a game. Indoor 1800s are also $20. It's a heck of a deal.
: : Air pistol just doesn't get the respect it deserves. I think it may be because the options for firearms games are so good. Action pistol and bullseye dominate. And really, they should. The facilities here are so good and the dedication is so high.
: : We have one of the best shooting facilities in the country in this state and there wasn't enough interest in air pistol last year to make a quorum of volunteers to run a state championship. What state are you in? I'm in Minnesota. I'd like to know more about how your club operates.
ramadsen-at-iname.com.45658.45638
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PETE
Agree with concept but some details.....
: All these comparisons of membership fees and match costs are amusing, when looked at in a vacuum, but I think USAS has some real problems showing that they provide a benefit worthy of the price they charge. Sure the total costs of shooting 10m air pistol maybe cheaper, but I doubt most people would pay for an organization if they could still shoot without joining unless it is providing some appreciable benefit...USAS seems a little light on these.
: With USPSA, you get great club support for new clubs, you get a good magazine with reviews of interesting matches, pretty good reviews of products and occasional informative gunsmithing articles as well as some useful sport-related advertising. You also have a well organized set of Areas and Sections throughout the U.S. where a major shooting match WILL be set up and shot every year (Area championships). You also have a national classification system where everyone can have a classification and even look up how they compare to everyone else (if you get the paper copy of the classification results). USPSA probably has an unfair advantage compared to USAS because their matches can give away substantial gun and cash prizes.
: With NRA, you get one of a few different magazines, you get a number of matches all over the country, pretty good club support (especially with bullseye, but not so much with action pistol), and a pretty good classification system. There are also a number of extra benefits to being an NRA member, such as free insurance for theft/loss/destruction of your firearms, discounts on hotels and rental cars, occasional discounts on products and services, etc. Plus, you have the benefit of knowing you're supporting an organization that protects your second amendment rights, without which, you wouldn't be shooting anything (see UK and Australia).
: With USAS, you get what's basically a mediocre newsletter, a couple of stickers, a classification system that is practically useless (I can't look mine up...in fact, I forgot what class I am).
I get a letter every year from USAS with my classification card and all the PTO scores. Any of us that call USAS have gotten good service.
You have virtually no matches unless you're lucky to be in a certain area. When I lived in Fairfax, VA, the closest matches were the *rare* match down near North Carolina or the matches in upstate New York. Even when there are matches, you often won't know about them because they're not posted online.
I am attending a pto like match in NC this weekend. The fellow who is running it does not have it sanctioned for reasons I can not explain. Hence it is not posted on the website. Some of my friends that organize NRA smallbore matches and USAS tell me that USAS is better to work with and faster to post to the web site.
I just saw that the PTO in Austin was posted not too long ago. I also hear there's supposed to be a match (maybe PTO) at Texas A&M in College Station on 11/22 - 11/23, but it's not posted. I just wasn't seeing very much benefit while I was a member, so I just let my membership lapse...I just can't see much of a reason to renew.
: If it was for promotion of the sport, etc....maybe, but I don't get the feeling USAS is even doing that, at least in the pistol events. I know, people are going to say, "but what are YOU doing to promote the sport..." Sorry folks, but I'm a full time grad student.
Have to agree here in that there are only 14 employees, and they have a lot on the plate just trying to do the minimum to keep the organization in existence. But promotion and giving an open sense of welcome, that is not in the leaderships ability.
I've helped set up USPSA, NRA Action Pistol, and a High School Rifle Team. As it is, I'm trying to help get some sort of a shooting club going at my university, but I can't run matches. I don't see USAS at shooting matches of other disciplines in order to entice people to join (though I heard Pilkington Equipment made it out to Bianchi), or striving to get the word out in other mainstream gun magazines, or other efforts to promote the sport.
Team members regularly are sent to various activities. But with the sport losing membership, participation etc, they don't make it as far as they need to.
If I knew USAS was even paying someone to run matches in areas where there weren't club matches in order to promote the sport it might be worth it, but as it is, I don't see a reason to renew.
.45666.45647
: With USPSA, you get great club support for new clubs, you get a good magazine with reviews of interesting matches, pretty good reviews of products and occasional informative gunsmithing articles as well as some useful sport-related advertising. You also have a well organized set of Areas and Sections throughout the U.S. where a major shooting match WILL be set up and shot every year (Area championships). You also have a national classification system where everyone can have a classification and even look up how they compare to everyone else (if you get the paper copy of the classification results). USPSA probably has an unfair advantage compared to USAS because their matches can give away substantial gun and cash prizes.
: With NRA, you get one of a few different magazines, you get a number of matches all over the country, pretty good club support (especially with bullseye, but not so much with action pistol), and a pretty good classification system. There are also a number of extra benefits to being an NRA member, such as free insurance for theft/loss/destruction of your firearms, discounts on hotels and rental cars, occasional discounts on products and services, etc. Plus, you have the benefit of knowing you're supporting an organization that protects your second amendment rights, without which, you wouldn't be shooting anything (see UK and Australia).
: With USAS, you get what's basically a mediocre newsletter, a couple of stickers, a classification system that is practically useless (I can't look mine up...in fact, I forgot what class I am).
I get a letter every year from USAS with my classification card and all the PTO scores. Any of us that call USAS have gotten good service.
You have virtually no matches unless you're lucky to be in a certain area. When I lived in Fairfax, VA, the closest matches were the *rare* match down near North Carolina or the matches in upstate New York. Even when there are matches, you often won't know about them because they're not posted online.
I am attending a pto like match in NC this weekend. The fellow who is running it does not have it sanctioned for reasons I can not explain. Hence it is not posted on the website. Some of my friends that organize NRA smallbore matches and USAS tell me that USAS is better to work with and faster to post to the web site.
I just saw that the PTO in Austin was posted not too long ago. I also hear there's supposed to be a match (maybe PTO) at Texas A&M in College Station on 11/22 - 11/23, but it's not posted. I just wasn't seeing very much benefit while I was a member, so I just let my membership lapse...I just can't see much of a reason to renew.
: If it was for promotion of the sport, etc....maybe, but I don't get the feeling USAS is even doing that, at least in the pistol events. I know, people are going to say, "but what are YOU doing to promote the sport..." Sorry folks, but I'm a full time grad student.
Have to agree here in that there are only 14 employees, and they have a lot on the plate just trying to do the minimum to keep the organization in existence. But promotion and giving an open sense of welcome, that is not in the leaderships ability.
I've helped set up USPSA, NRA Action Pistol, and a High School Rifle Team. As it is, I'm trying to help get some sort of a shooting club going at my university, but I can't run matches. I don't see USAS at shooting matches of other disciplines in order to entice people to join (though I heard Pilkington Equipment made it out to Bianchi), or striving to get the word out in other mainstream gun magazines, or other efforts to promote the sport.
Team members regularly are sent to various activities. But with the sport losing membership, participation etc, they don't make it as far as they need to.
If I knew USAS was even paying someone to run matches in areas where there weren't club matches in order to promote the sport it might be worth it, but as it is, I don't see a reason to renew.
.45666.45647
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steve b.
Re: PTO Question
i agree with this completely. i run a few different matches at my local club, and after a competitior spends over $1000.00 on gear alone, $10 just does not matter. we accept it as the "cost of competition" and just pay it.
as for supporting other with these fees, i don't care, my fellow members don't care. there are bigger things to worry about when running a match. I'm glad that we have a great club to even shoot at, that we are fotunate enought to share in this interest, and that every now and then we get a few in the 10 ring.
worry about bigger stuff. if someone decides not to shoot because of a $10 fee, they probably are not that serious about it to begin with, and won't stick with it anyhow.
s.
.45675.45651
as for supporting other with these fees, i don't care, my fellow members don't care. there are bigger things to worry about when running a match. I'm glad that we have a great club to even shoot at, that we are fotunate enought to share in this interest, and that every now and then we get a few in the 10 ring.
worry about bigger stuff. if someone decides not to shoot because of a $10 fee, they probably are not that serious about it to begin with, and won't stick with it anyhow.
s.
.45675.45651
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akihmsa
Re: hmmmm this brings up a intersesting thought
I think the answer is simply that if they don't want to shoot they can come up with all sorts of excuses. The one where the fellow says he can reload 100 rounds of .45 for less than $2.50 is good for a laugh for the rest of the day;~), or that "match ammo" can be had for $1.25 for 50, yeh right, Such B.S.!
: well I think there are two sides to this coin, there are those that think that air pistol is not "real" shooting and then there are those that have tried and think it is too hard and stick with bullseye. Back when I serioulsy was around BE events around the country I knew many BE who were very competive in BE but thought International required too much work to be competitive. In some part this is true, and in some part the equipment is part of the problem. what do I mean by that.... well the barrels are too long,
: Yep the barrels are too long for the average competitor. Especially new guys but even old hands. The problem is that long sight radius (compared to the average American target pistols) that makes their hold look like crap, and then they are fighting all the more to make it smooth out and that of course only makes it get worse.
: so they don't do as well as they think they should (compared to their bullseye scores) and so in a few months time the AP gets dropped because they are frustrated with lack of progress or regress of what they thought their shooting ability was simply because of that long sight radius. If the sights were moved back to typical American distance, then their hold would look much more solid and they would have the confidence to break the shot in a timely manner. .
: well this is kindof off the top of my head,.... I let you guys chew on this while I go off to sleep now
: : Yes, and I think the answer you got was also with the best intentions. And what he was trying to point out was that the dolllar and cents of the event is a non issue, but rather a an excuse for what is still a unfornately not conisdered a real shooting sport.
: : : The reason for the original post was motivated by a desire to accommodate the best shooters while maintaining and perhaps increasing participation by the rest. If that is, in your opinion, blather, then further correspondence between us serves no constructive purpose.
.45827.45645
: well I think there are two sides to this coin, there are those that think that air pistol is not "real" shooting and then there are those that have tried and think it is too hard and stick with bullseye. Back when I serioulsy was around BE events around the country I knew many BE who were very competive in BE but thought International required too much work to be competitive. In some part this is true, and in some part the equipment is part of the problem. what do I mean by that.... well the barrels are too long,
: Yep the barrels are too long for the average competitor. Especially new guys but even old hands. The problem is that long sight radius (compared to the average American target pistols) that makes their hold look like crap, and then they are fighting all the more to make it smooth out and that of course only makes it get worse.
: so they don't do as well as they think they should (compared to their bullseye scores) and so in a few months time the AP gets dropped because they are frustrated with lack of progress or regress of what they thought their shooting ability was simply because of that long sight radius. If the sights were moved back to typical American distance, then their hold would look much more solid and they would have the confidence to break the shot in a timely manner. .
: well this is kindof off the top of my head,.... I let you guys chew on this while I go off to sleep now
: : Yes, and I think the answer you got was also with the best intentions. And what he was trying to point out was that the dolllar and cents of the event is a non issue, but rather a an excuse for what is still a unfornately not conisdered a real shooting sport.
: : : The reason for the original post was motivated by a desire to accommodate the best shooters while maintaining and perhaps increasing participation by the rest. If that is, in your opinion, blather, then further correspondence between us serves no constructive purpose.
.45827.45645