A few of the camps near my current location wanted significantly higher accuracy rifles for their youth programs, to give the kids "a taste" of what can be done with relatively high quality rifles. For that purpose, the Walther KK100 and Club Sporter, KKM, and UIT worked very well. The other, suitable for left handed individuals, was the GSP rifle loaded one round at a time if needed for safety. Unfortunately, the weight of these guns is about the same as the Anschutz 1907. To offset this, some found the Walther KKJ in .22lr to be superb with a diopter sight installed on the rear 11mm dovetail, using the hooded front sight as the "globe". Not as accurate as the 1907 or M54, but far better than most others.
The KKJ and GSP rifle don't have a rail on the fore-end to accept a bipod type support, the others do have one.
The main item of interest, was that the kids really loved these compared to the usual rifles despite their weight, because they could actually hit the targets. Some of the instructors used these rifles as the "reward" for improvement with the other rifles, some used them as training aids.
Even used, these are more expensive than the current Savage and the like, but do offer greater service life with regard to total end cost over the entire service life.
Brief and limited experience with youth rifle selection
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Re: Brief and limited experience with youth rifle selection
Years ago Erin Gestal of the Palmyra club turned me on to the Izmash CM-2 Cadets for juniors.
We've had a few of these in our inventory that are great for our advanced intermediate shooters that are about 12+ years old.
Adjustable enough for them and vary accurate if matched w/ ammo.
We've had multiple shooters qualify for the JOs using these rifles.
US stopped importing them during the Obama years.... would like to see that pipline rolling again
We've had a few of these in our inventory that are great for our advanced intermediate shooters that are about 12+ years old.
Adjustable enough for them and vary accurate if matched w/ ammo.
We've had multiple shooters qualify for the JOs using these rifles.
US stopped importing them during the Obama years.... would like to see that pipline rolling again
Re: Brief and limited experience with youth rifle selection
Very accurate observation about old Soviet rifles.
Compared to these, the KKJ and KJS are less than 2/3 the size and about half the weight physically, but have no adjustability, and somewhat better accuracy (and usually, durability). Although availability varies, they also are somewhat more available at times than the Izmash/Vostok rifle much of the, and a limited range of replacement parts is available from US and UK sources.
The size and weight of the KK100 type rifle is comparable to the CM-2, but the reach to the bolt is shorter, which makes it easier for some kids to use. But a small difference.
If considering the CM-2, its "parent" rifle, the Walther KK-UIT and the prior model the KK-M are a significantly higher quality, true international competition accuracy guns, and tend to be available. Price mostly varies with cosmetic condition. There was a rare supermatch version of the KK-M which used an extremely heavy barrel, probably making it too heavy for kid's use.
If ever stumbled across, Sauer (the original company) also made a very fine .22lr single shot match gun, as did Valmet ("Finnish Lion").
The "set apart" thing for the KKJ and KJS is their very low weight, small size, and accuracy for weight. The KKJ also offered the double set trigger and some had a cross-bolt safety on the stock as well as one on the bolt itself. The size and weight rendered them quite useful for smaller, or younger individuals, as well as various relatives and descendants of Bilbo and Frodo Baggins.
Compared to these, the KKJ and KJS are less than 2/3 the size and about half the weight physically, but have no adjustability, and somewhat better accuracy (and usually, durability). Although availability varies, they also are somewhat more available at times than the Izmash/Vostok rifle much of the, and a limited range of replacement parts is available from US and UK sources.
The size and weight of the KK100 type rifle is comparable to the CM-2, but the reach to the bolt is shorter, which makes it easier for some kids to use. But a small difference.
If considering the CM-2, its "parent" rifle, the Walther KK-UIT and the prior model the KK-M are a significantly higher quality, true international competition accuracy guns, and tend to be available. Price mostly varies with cosmetic condition. There was a rare supermatch version of the KK-M which used an extremely heavy barrel, probably making it too heavy for kid's use.
If ever stumbled across, Sauer (the original company) also made a very fine .22lr single shot match gun, as did Valmet ("Finnish Lion").
The "set apart" thing for the KKJ and KJS is their very low weight, small size, and accuracy for weight. The KKJ also offered the double set trigger and some had a cross-bolt safety on the stock as well as one on the bolt itself. The size and weight rendered them quite useful for smaller, or younger individuals, as well as various relatives and descendants of Bilbo and Frodo Baggins.
Last edited by J on Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Brief and limited experience with youth rifle selection
I have a couple that I retired from our junior team and am selling them. The stocks were cut and shorted and spacers added to help meet the needs of small and medium sized shooters. My daughter actually started with one when she was 12.
If interested, PM me to get pics and price.
Re: Brief and limited experience with youth rifle selection
Perhaps I should mention (and if I shouldn't, let me know and I'll delete this), I do have one custom produced short barrel 1807 with custom shortened and contoured (fore-end) RH stock, and one original KKJ with dst that can be made available for purchase. These were not team or group guns and the 1807 was a "serious competition" gun. Both were in individual use. Unfortunately, likely above the price range of the CM-2. If images desired, please email (Nikita@alum.MIT.edu) as the image files are too large to send by PM or post easily.
Due to the small size and light weight, the KKJ was useful as young as age 7-8 by some, with careful supervision and careful selection of users.
Due to the short reach for the bolt, many kids by age 12 had no trouble using the Walther Club Sporter or KK100, but they are heavy. Some found a rearward diopter extension useful, most just used larger rear aperture diopters if needed. Due to integration of the muzzle bulge for a balanced inverted pendulum effect for accuracy, these rifle barrels are best not be shortened, even if alternative front sight mounts are to be used.
Due to the small size and light weight, the KKJ was useful as young as age 7-8 by some, with careful supervision and careful selection of users.
Due to the short reach for the bolt, many kids by age 12 had no trouble using the Walther Club Sporter or KK100, but they are heavy. Some found a rearward diopter extension useful, most just used larger rear aperture diopters if needed. Due to integration of the muzzle bulge for a balanced inverted pendulum effect for accuracy, these rifle barrels are best not be shortened, even if alternative front sight mounts are to be used.
Re: Brief and limited experience with youth rifle selection
One Scout camp we visited around 2001 was equipped with Marlin 2000's, which I thought was a huge step up, especially when it came to fitting pre-teens varying in sizes from 4'8" to 6ft. Unfortunately, that was a short-lived model.