Hello- I am seriously considering buying a new match rifle. I certainly am not a world class shooter, but I am looking for a quality gun to shoot at my home "10m airgun range" and perhaps in the occasional local competition. I am looking for an accurate, quality gun that I can enjoy shooting for years to come.
Some guns I have been looking at are: the FWB 603, FWB P70 and STEYR LG100. Unfortunately, no one I know has any of these rifles, so I have not had a chance to actually see one. I would appreciate any comments regarding whether there are any distinct advantages of one over the other, and what most knowledgeable shooters seem to prefer.
I like the idea that the FWB 603 is pneumatic, and completely "self sufficient". However, I am not "intimidated" by PCPs ant the extra filling gear they require, and since I already have a scuba tank (I am a diver), that option is fine with me. The FWB 603 has a 19 lb cocking effort- do shooters feel that is a problem during a match? I am already used to cocking spring piston airguns. The "take-apart" feature of the LG100 is not a big concern to me; I don't expect to travel with the gun very often. I think I will stay away from the TAU products, I have a TAU-7, and while it is an accurate gun, I am not particularly impressed with the quality.
Thanks for your time
Darren
.45405.0
Need Help Choosing a 10m Rifle- Thanks
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
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Rob
Re: Need Help Choosing a 10m Rifle- Thanks
I recently purchased my first 10 rifle. I am not a world class shooter but enjoy shooting in my basement range also. I don't personally know anyone who has a 10M rifle so i did a lot of looking and reading on the internet and talked to a few dealers. I decided to buy the Wlather LG 300 Alutech. I am very happy with it. It is very easy to adjust to suit my body and shooting position. It is very accurate, my other air rifles use the Walther Lothar barrels and they will also shoot one hole at 10M. The person that I found to be the most helpful was Homer at Champions Choice in Tenn. Call and ask to speak to him, he will take his time and answer all of your questions. One thing about Walthers and Champions Choice, is that they are factory authorized service center for Walther. If you every have a problem with your gun they have a one day turn around on service! I don't know whether or not you will find that type of service inthe states on FWB, Steyr, or Anshutz.
HTH
Rob
.45407.45405
HTH
Rob
.45407.45405
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pdeal
Re: Need Help Choosing a 10m Rifle- Thanks
I have a both Ans. 2002's and P70's and am very happy with both. I personally think for pure 10m shooting the P70 is hard to beat. The stock to me seems like the perfect offhand stock. The quality is very nice, they have a proven track record. If you want to do any 3p shooting the disadvantage of the P70 is you need to reach quite a distance out there to cock it. Also, if you think you might want to scope it for silhouette practice or shooting bugs in the yard the P70 is a pain to put a scope on. The Anschutz 2002 is also a very good reliable gun. Anschutz tends to have better support in the states and all kinds of little dodads are very available. The 2002's are also very easy to scope. The 2002 to me feels bigger and heavier than the P70. Niether of these rifles have a native mode where they can be dry fired without releasing air (with the cylinder screwed in). A friend of mine has an LG300 and is very happy with it too. It does have a dry fire feature. If you are on a tight budget they you might consider a pneumatic (used they are cheap) but in your case since you already have a scuba tank I'd get a pcp.
pdeal-at-mylanlabs.com.45409.45407
pdeal-at-mylanlabs.com.45409.45407
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Bill Poole
Re: Need Help Choosing a 10m Rifle- Thanks
I've got an older FWB300....
Cocking that thing 60 times is a PAIN !!!!!!!
especially with a coat on!
My AP is a PCP (morini) it is soooooo much nicer to concentrate on nothing but shooting....
good shooting
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
bill-at-poole.com.45410.45405
Cocking that thing 60 times is a PAIN !!!!!!!
especially with a coat on!
My AP is a PCP (morini) it is soooooo much nicer to concentrate on nothing but shooting....
good shooting
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
bill-at-poole.com.45410.45405
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Øystein, Norwegian Shooti
Re: Need Help Choosing a 10m Rifle- Thanks
Hello Darren!
In my opinion the Walther LG 300 airrifle is the best. On this rifle, you can just move a "button" and then you can dryfire. This can not be done on f.x. the Feinwerkbau airrifles.
Good luck choosing your gunmate!
oeho-at-netcom.no.45411.45405
In my opinion the Walther LG 300 airrifle is the best. On this rifle, you can just move a "button" and then you can dryfire. This can not be done on f.x. the Feinwerkbau airrifles.
Good luck choosing your gunmate!
oeho-at-netcom.no.45411.45405
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Bob
Re: Need Help Choosing a 10m Rifle- Thanks
Darren,
If your're just buying this for the joy of shooting, go out and purchase a used rifle, either pneumatic or compressed air. You are more than capable of cocking it yourself as everyone involved in the sports had to do it only a few years ago. The market is flooded right now with pneumatic air rifles and I am certain that you can have a fantastic deal purchasing one of theses.
As for choosing an Anschutz, FWB, Walther or Steyr, world class athletes use all of these. I use an Anschutz and like it very much. I've owned a FWB and liked it too. Your choice, they're all great rifles.
.45413.45405
If your're just buying this for the joy of shooting, go out and purchase a used rifle, either pneumatic or compressed air. You are more than capable of cocking it yourself as everyone involved in the sports had to do it only a few years ago. The market is flooded right now with pneumatic air rifles and I am certain that you can have a fantastic deal purchasing one of theses.
As for choosing an Anschutz, FWB, Walther or Steyr, world class athletes use all of these. I use an Anschutz and like it very much. I've owned a FWB and liked it too. Your choice, they're all great rifles.
.45413.45405
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Bob
Re: Need Help Choosing a 10m Rifle- Thanks
Darren,
If your're just buying this for the joy of shooting, go out and purchase a used rifle, either pneumatic or compressed air. You are more than capable of cocking it yourself as everyone involved in the sports had to do it only a few years ago. The market is flooded right now with pneumatic air rifles and I am certain that you can have a fantastic deal purchasing one of theses.
As for choosing an Anschutz, FWB, Walther or Steyr, world class athletes use all of these. I use an Anschutz and like it very much. I've owned a FWB and liked it too. Your choice, they're all great rifles.
.45414.45405
If your're just buying this for the joy of shooting, go out and purchase a used rifle, either pneumatic or compressed air. You are more than capable of cocking it yourself as everyone involved in the sports had to do it only a few years ago. The market is flooded right now with pneumatic air rifles and I am certain that you can have a fantastic deal purchasing one of theses.
As for choosing an Anschutz, FWB, Walther or Steyr, world class athletes use all of these. I use an Anschutz and like it very much. I've owned a FWB and liked it too. Your choice, they're all great rifles.
.45414.45405
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GR Martin
Re: Need Help Choosing a 10m Rifle- Thanks
: Darren
First, I’m real new to this forum, (just discovered it last month).
You’ve got your work cut out for you. I’ve been shooting air rifle (and air pistol) since about 1970, when our team received some of the early FWB75’s. I just recently retired it for an extremely nice, used fwb601. I changed not for lack of accuracy, but I just wanted a better fitting gun. The 601 is that. For me, it’s one of the nicest fitting and shooting rifles I’ve used in 40 years.
Spring vs gas – I use a co2 Steyr for air pistol, and it’s OK. It’s really a matter of dealing with the gas. It can be a real nuisance. Cocking the spring has never been an issue for me, but it’s really a personal issue for many shooters. Simplicity vs gadgetry. I’ve always tried to use the KISS principle when evaluating shooting systems.
Good Luck, and good shooting
George
grm_daddyo-at-earthlink.net.45415.45405
First, I’m real new to this forum, (just discovered it last month).
You’ve got your work cut out for you. I’ve been shooting air rifle (and air pistol) since about 1970, when our team received some of the early FWB75’s. I just recently retired it for an extremely nice, used fwb601. I changed not for lack of accuracy, but I just wanted a better fitting gun. The 601 is that. For me, it’s one of the nicest fitting and shooting rifles I’ve used in 40 years.
Spring vs gas – I use a co2 Steyr for air pistol, and it’s OK. It’s really a matter of dealing with the gas. It can be a real nuisance. Cocking the spring has never been an issue for me, but it’s really a personal issue for many shooters. Simplicity vs gadgetry. I’ve always tried to use the KISS principle when evaluating shooting systems.
Good Luck, and good shooting
George
grm_daddyo-at-earthlink.net.45415.45405
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Joseph
Re: Need Help Choosing a 10m Rifle- Thanks
Walther, Anschutz, FWB, you can't go wrong.
If it were me, I would not buy a Steyer, I just don't like them.
FWB stocks fit the most people with little or no modification.
Anschutz makes the best sights, and I feel the action quality is slightly higher than the others.
Wather has historically made the best triggers.
With that in mind, all of these are world class rifles. I started on a FWB P70Jr, and shot well with it for about 7 months before I decided to buy my anschutz (the FWB was owned by my school). I have a 2002CA right now, and I love my gun. My qualms with the Anschutz's stem primarily from the fact that their aluminum stocks (as well as walther's) are made of cast aluminum (as opposed to machined aluminum), and, because of this, they are fairly brittle. If you drop it, expect to have to buy another stock (about $600+) at the least. My trigger guard broke about a year and a half ago when it smacked against the bench at Wolf Creek, and there is no way to fix it, again because it is cast aluminum. For this reason, I would probably not buy another anschutz stock. Walthers, i'm told, have the same problem. Not a performance problem, but something to think about before you make a $1500 investment.
Also, FWB's are really expensive in the US becaue Beeman has a monopoly on the imports. The US is the only country, i'm told, where FWB's cost more than Anschutz's.
I like the P70ALU stock better than any ohter 10m stock i've seen...but again, it's personal preference.
In respone to an earlier post, you CAN dry-fire all of these rifles. At the worst, you have to unscrew the air tank. Walther has a button, but if you switch to live fire while the rifle is cocked it will discharge, potentiall creating a safety hazard if you're not careful and costing you about 10 points in a match. Pilkington sells (or at least used to) an adaptor to make the FWB's dry fire w/o unscrewing the cylendar and anshutz is even easier: you just cock the action and then don't close it. The anschutz will buck down a little when you do this...kinda like recoil backwards, whcih is another reason i'm not to fond of them.
If i were buying a rifle today, it would probably be a P70ALU. In my opninion, it has the best stock on the market. If only you could put an anschutz action in one...(*drooling*)
As far as the CA vs. Pneumatic question: i actually have a fairly definitive answer (besides the over used phrase "personal prefernce") If you shoot 3P Air, DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRUMSTANCES BUY PNEUMATIC. They suck for 3P. Period. If you're only shooting standing, it becomes a little more difficult. If you are just starting, it doesn't really matter: you can probably shoot as well with both of them. After you get more advanced (or if you already are) and know about shot rhythms, then you have a decision to make. If you shoot better when you're shooting relatively fast, then you probably need compressed air, simply because 1) it's faster and 2) you don't have to wait for your heart to slow down after cocking the thing. If you shoot better slowly, and especially if you have a tendency to speed up, then Pneumatic might actually be better: it forces you to slow down if you want to shoot well. Be forewarned, however, that once you shoot a CA rifle, you will almost certianly not go back to a pneumatic. I shot a pneumatic for about a month when i started w/ my high school team, and i didn't have a problem with it. Once i switched, i was hooked. Now, it would take a lot for me to go back.
Good luck!
.45416.45405
If it were me, I would not buy a Steyer, I just don't like them.
FWB stocks fit the most people with little or no modification.
Anschutz makes the best sights, and I feel the action quality is slightly higher than the others.
Wather has historically made the best triggers.
With that in mind, all of these are world class rifles. I started on a FWB P70Jr, and shot well with it for about 7 months before I decided to buy my anschutz (the FWB was owned by my school). I have a 2002CA right now, and I love my gun. My qualms with the Anschutz's stem primarily from the fact that their aluminum stocks (as well as walther's) are made of cast aluminum (as opposed to machined aluminum), and, because of this, they are fairly brittle. If you drop it, expect to have to buy another stock (about $600+) at the least. My trigger guard broke about a year and a half ago when it smacked against the bench at Wolf Creek, and there is no way to fix it, again because it is cast aluminum. For this reason, I would probably not buy another anschutz stock. Walthers, i'm told, have the same problem. Not a performance problem, but something to think about before you make a $1500 investment.
Also, FWB's are really expensive in the US becaue Beeman has a monopoly on the imports. The US is the only country, i'm told, where FWB's cost more than Anschutz's.
I like the P70ALU stock better than any ohter 10m stock i've seen...but again, it's personal preference.
In respone to an earlier post, you CAN dry-fire all of these rifles. At the worst, you have to unscrew the air tank. Walther has a button, but if you switch to live fire while the rifle is cocked it will discharge, potentiall creating a safety hazard if you're not careful and costing you about 10 points in a match. Pilkington sells (or at least used to) an adaptor to make the FWB's dry fire w/o unscrewing the cylendar and anshutz is even easier: you just cock the action and then don't close it. The anschutz will buck down a little when you do this...kinda like recoil backwards, whcih is another reason i'm not to fond of them.
If i were buying a rifle today, it would probably be a P70ALU. In my opninion, it has the best stock on the market. If only you could put an anschutz action in one...(*drooling*)
As far as the CA vs. Pneumatic question: i actually have a fairly definitive answer (besides the over used phrase "personal prefernce") If you shoot 3P Air, DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRUMSTANCES BUY PNEUMATIC. They suck for 3P. Period. If you're only shooting standing, it becomes a little more difficult. If you are just starting, it doesn't really matter: you can probably shoot as well with both of them. After you get more advanced (or if you already are) and know about shot rhythms, then you have a decision to make. If you shoot better when you're shooting relatively fast, then you probably need compressed air, simply because 1) it's faster and 2) you don't have to wait for your heart to slow down after cocking the thing. If you shoot better slowly, and especially if you have a tendency to speed up, then Pneumatic might actually be better: it forces you to slow down if you want to shoot well. Be forewarned, however, that once you shoot a CA rifle, you will almost certianly not go back to a pneumatic. I shot a pneumatic for about a month when i started w/ my high school team, and i didn't have a problem with it. Once i switched, i was hooked. Now, it would take a lot for me to go back.
Good luck!
.45416.45405
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steve b.
question on your FWB 300
Poole, how does the 300's accuracy compare to the Morini?
: Poole
: http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
.45417.45410
: Poole
: http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
.45417.45410
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pdeal
About P70 dryfiring
Another option I've found and did on my daughter's rifle is to put a hole in the loading gate. This allows her to see through the sights when the gate is open. With it open you can dryfire the rifle with the cylinder screwed in and not release air.
pdeal-at-mylanlabs.com.45418.45416
pdeal-at-mylanlabs.com.45418.45416
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Darren
Thanks to All for your helpful comments
All your comments were helpful and I appreciate your taking the time to post replies. I still haven't decided, but I will soon. Thank you!!
Darren
.45423.45405
Darren
.45423.45405
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Bill Poole
Re: question on your FWB 300
: Poole, how does the 300's accuracy compare to the Morini?
I have not put the 300S rifle on a bench or the Morini pistol in a vice...
maybe I should...
Maybe I won't like the answer.....
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
bill-at-poole.com.45425.45417
I have not put the 300S rifle on a bench or the Morini pistol in a vice...
maybe I should...
Maybe I won't like the answer.....
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
bill-at-poole.com.45425.45417
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steve b.
Re: question on your FWB 300
interesting. i finally broke down and purchased a friends 300s, and am waiting to try it out. it's more for a at home training rifle for silhouette when i can't make it to the range, and i don't mind the manual cocking - i always break my position somewhat in silhouette.
anyhow, he said that it's very accurate, but i have yet to test it and wanted to know your feelings about it.. i think i get an idea. thanks
.45426.45425
anyhow, he said that it's very accurate, but i have yet to test it and wanted to know your feelings about it.. i think i get an idea. thanks
.45426.45425
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David
Putting a 2002 in an FWB stock
: I concur with Joseph. I too am a victim of the brittle aluminum. We both have agreed on several occasios that an Anschutz 2002 in a Feinwerkbau ALU stock is the way to go. Now, does anyone know how to do this? I have looked at the P70 stock and concluded that it probably could be done, but I was wondering if anyone has ever tried or has any suggestions.
.45428.45416
.45428.45416
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TomF
Re: Need Help Choosing a 10m Rifle- Thanks
Would it be legal to have someone else cock the gun for you? Like your spotter? Or valet?
: As far as the CA vs. Pneumatic question: i actually have a fairly definitive answer (besides the over used phrase "personal prefernce") If you shoot 3P Air, DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRUMSTANCES BUY PNEUMATIC. They suck for 3P. Period. If you're only shooting standing, it becomes a little more difficult. If you are just starting, it doesn't really matter: you can probably shoot as well with both of them. After you get more advanced (or if you already are) and know about shot rhythms, then you have a decision to make. If you shoot better when you're shooting relatively fast, then you probably need compressed air, simply because 1) it's faster and 2) you don't have to wait for your heart to slow down after cocking the thing. If you shoot better slowly, and especially if you have a tendency to speed up, then Pneumatic might actually be better: it forces you to slow down if you want to shoot well. Be forewarned, however, that once you shoot a CA rifle, you will almost certianly not go back to a pneumatic. I shot a pneumatic for about a month when i started w/ my high school team, and i didn't have a problem with it. Once i switched, i was hooked. Now, it would take a lot for me to go back.
: Good luck!
shootingsports-at-ev1.net.45456.45416
: As far as the CA vs. Pneumatic question: i actually have a fairly definitive answer (besides the over used phrase "personal prefernce") If you shoot 3P Air, DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRUMSTANCES BUY PNEUMATIC. They suck for 3P. Period. If you're only shooting standing, it becomes a little more difficult. If you are just starting, it doesn't really matter: you can probably shoot as well with both of them. After you get more advanced (or if you already are) and know about shot rhythms, then you have a decision to make. If you shoot better when you're shooting relatively fast, then you probably need compressed air, simply because 1) it's faster and 2) you don't have to wait for your heart to slow down after cocking the thing. If you shoot better slowly, and especially if you have a tendency to speed up, then Pneumatic might actually be better: it forces you to slow down if you want to shoot well. Be forewarned, however, that once you shoot a CA rifle, you will almost certianly not go back to a pneumatic. I shot a pneumatic for about a month when i started w/ my high school team, and i didn't have a problem with it. Once i switched, i was hooked. Now, it would take a lot for me to go back.
: Good luck!
shootingsports-at-ev1.net.45456.45416
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Joseph
Re: Putting a 2002 in an FWB stock
I have talked to the gunsmiths at Neal Johnson's when i was at JO last spring. He said that it might be possible, but their response was "how big is your visa?" Because the P70alu stock is machined aluminium, i believe it is technically possible...although, it might not be easy. I have seen a 19xx action in a 2602 stock, but i'm talking air rifles here...
.45499.45428
.45499.45428