Hi,
I'm new to precision air pistol shooting and am looking for a gun (first gun) for 10 meter competition.
I'm a right handed-shooter, right-eye dominant, w/ large hands and proportionally long fingers (ie, fingers are neither "stubby" nor "gangly").
So first off, how important are adjustable grips for the average shooter?--seems like I could waste a lot of time messing with them, and what I've read here and elsewhere seems to hold that most competition guns can be ergonomically adjusted to, "as is". However, the biggest complaint I've read against the 162IE's is their lack of adjustable grips.
OTOH, the LP10 also looks really neat, and has that novel "recoilless" set up. However, I'm a little put off by a) the loading mechanism and b) some issues I've read about here concerning the trigger adjustment.
Any help? Anybody care to compare briefly the regular 162 against the short version?
Thanks for any help.
-David
.44880.0
New to AP--which to buy: LP10, 162IE, or 162EI short
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
-
Bill Poole
Re: New to AP--which to buy: LP10, 162IE, or 162EI short
I got the Morini CM162IE std length.
The best AP shooter in Arizona uses the same gun... (so do some of the best AP shooters in the world) one advantage of having the same gun as others in your club, is you have someone to ask questions of about adjustments problems, techniques etc, and to share tools, filler adapter, cylinders, etc with, when one of you forgets them.... (yeah it happened!)
Apparently ALL the top guns shoot just as accurate with good pellets, so go to local shoots and try to get your hand around different models and buy the one u like best based on feel...
Or buy them all and shoot them for a year and report back to us which is best :)
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
bill-at-poole.com.44882.44880
The best AP shooter in Arizona uses the same gun... (so do some of the best AP shooters in the world) one advantage of having the same gun as others in your club, is you have someone to ask questions of about adjustments problems, techniques etc, and to share tools, filler adapter, cylinders, etc with, when one of you forgets them.... (yeah it happened!)
Apparently ALL the top guns shoot just as accurate with good pellets, so go to local shoots and try to get your hand around different models and buy the one u like best based on feel...
Or buy them all and shoot them for a year and report back to us which is best :)
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
bill-at-poole.com.44882.44880
-
Roland Cannon
Re: New to AP--which to buy: LP10, 162IE, or 162EI short
If your hands are large, Steyr offers a grip that is very easy to deal with. My hand is large enough that I usually cannot buy gloves big enough to be comfortable. The XL Steyr grip fits me just fine.
I have not had one trigger issue on my LP 10. The gun was one of the first brought in by Warren and Scott. Just guessing, but the gun has been fired over 15,000 times.
.44883.44880
I have not had one trigger issue on my LP 10. The gun was one of the first brought in by Warren and Scott. Just guessing, but the gun has been fired over 15,000 times.
.44883.44880
-
David M
162 long Vs short
The difference between them is balance.
The short is not as forgiving as the long. The extra weight out the front makes the long a better beginers pistol.
The short has a much faster barrel movement when sighting with a smaller wobble (because it is lighter, with a rear C of G) and this allows much faster sight corrections, but any trigger error will pull the shot out much further than the longer pistol will.
The short will pull your 9.8's and 9.9's into the 10 ring, but will push your 9.0's and 9.1's out into the 8 ring.
.44887.44880
The short is not as forgiving as the long. The extra weight out the front makes the long a better beginers pistol.
The short has a much faster barrel movement when sighting with a smaller wobble (because it is lighter, with a rear C of G) and this allows much faster sight corrections, but any trigger error will pull the shot out much further than the longer pistol will.
The short will pull your 9.8's and 9.9's into the 10 ring, but will push your 9.0's and 9.1's out into the 8 ring.
.44887.44880
-
David R.
Re: 162 long Vs short
Thanks. Excellent summary of the different shooting characteristics of two Morinis. Just what I needed!
-David
.44889.44887
-David
.44889.44887
-
Mako
David M ....
David ... in your opinion, does adding a barrel weight to the Short help ...
I bought a short lite weight because of a shoulder problem ... but now I could probably take the added weight ...
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.44909.44887
I bought a short lite weight because of a shoulder problem ... but now I could probably take the added weight ...
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.44909.44887
-
Chris L in NC
LP10 trigger is just right for long fingers
Which means that me and my little stubby fingers are having trouble with the LP10 trigger. The main complaint about the switch from LP1 to 10 was that the new funky adjustable trigger shoe was too long for most people compared to the original simple one. It's difficult to explain, just look at a picture.
It sounds like you're leaning Morini and this is fine. The only concrete advantage I think the LP10 has over the Morini is the LP10's fully adjustable grip, so I was able to get the grip rake to where the sights line up with only moderate grip pressure. I believe the LP10 might have a longer sight radius at full adjustment too. This is not conclusive, though. IIRC the majority of the pistols on the unofficial Men's AP Final at the Selection Match last month were Morinis. I would point out, however, that the man with the best score in the Final, John Bickar, had an LP10. The reason I didn't go with the Morini was the nose-heaviness. The only time I got to handle one was when I had overtrained with my nose-heavy IZH and my elbow was hurting, so I was allergic to any more nose-heaviness.
chrisatty-at-hotmail.com.44913.44880
It sounds like you're leaning Morini and this is fine. The only concrete advantage I think the LP10 has over the Morini is the LP10's fully adjustable grip, so I was able to get the grip rake to where the sights line up with only moderate grip pressure. I believe the LP10 might have a longer sight radius at full adjustment too. This is not conclusive, though. IIRC the majority of the pistols on the unofficial Men's AP Final at the Selection Match last month were Morinis. I would point out, however, that the man with the best score in the Final, John Bickar, had an LP10. The reason I didn't go with the Morini was the nose-heaviness. The only time I got to handle one was when I had overtrained with my nose-heavy IZH and my elbow was hurting, so I was allergic to any more nose-heaviness.
chrisatty-at-hotmail.com.44913.44880
-
Chris L in NC
And about the loading issue
I don't have any trouble loading my LP10, probably because the IZH has almost the same drill. It's also nearly impossible to accidentally insert a pellet backwards, which is something I would probably do given half a chance.
The trigger adjustment screws are as easy to move as anybody else, though you need to take off the grip and trigger shoe to get to all of them. But I will say that when it got weighed the first time at the Selection Match, it blew. It didn't pass after the second adjustment, or the third, or the tenth. It happened that the Equipment Control guys were USAMU armorers, so I gave them the screwdriver and they got it within spec. Just show up early for equipment check!
chrisatty-at-hotmail.com.44914.44913
The trigger adjustment screws are as easy to move as anybody else, though you need to take off the grip and trigger shoe to get to all of them. But I will say that when it got weighed the first time at the Selection Match, it blew. It didn't pass after the second adjustment, or the third, or the tenth. It happened that the Equipment Control guys were USAMU armorers, so I gave them the screwdriver and they got it within spec. Just show up early for equipment check!
chrisatty-at-hotmail.com.44914.44913
-
David R.
Good to know
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
The more I research it, the more I'm understanding that the differences between the top guns are very very fine, and because of that, decisions as to which to buy slowly to move from the head to the gut.
Right now my gut is saying Morini, but I can't offer a really good reason why ;)
.44915.44914
The more I research it, the more I'm understanding that the differences between the top guns are very very fine, and because of that, decisions as to which to buy slowly to move from the head to the gut.
Right now my gut is saying Morini, but I can't offer a really good reason why ;)
.44915.44914
-
David M
Why add....
If I wanted the weight out front, I would shoot the long.
The balance is the key, not the mass.
.44916.44909
The balance is the key, not the mass.
.44916.44909
-
Jerry LeVan
Little known Morini accessory...
I am fortunate to have a LP10 and a "long" Morini...
Morini offers an "extended reach" trigger shoe. This shoe allows persons with longish fingers to not have to undergo contortions to reach the trigger.
I like the trigger on the Morini, it seems to have a nice soft release,
I dislike the non adjustablity of the grip. I would be a bit more happy if I could get a bit more rake in the handle, as it comes it feels like I have to hold up the end of the barrel but even so I need a bit *more* weight on the front end to hold down the wobble.
I really like the ergos of the LP10 and of course the shock free shot break experience.
In *my* experience the LP10 is a bit more prone to mechanical problems, it seems to have more moving parts that can go out of adjustment.
I think the LP10 is a bit less demanding physically to do a lot of shooting with than the Morini, it just feels lighter and better balanced for me.
--Jerry
jerry.levan-at-eku.edu.44922.44913
Morini offers an "extended reach" trigger shoe. This shoe allows persons with longish fingers to not have to undergo contortions to reach the trigger.
I like the trigger on the Morini, it seems to have a nice soft release,
I dislike the non adjustablity of the grip. I would be a bit more happy if I could get a bit more rake in the handle, as it comes it feels like I have to hold up the end of the barrel but even so I need a bit *more* weight on the front end to hold down the wobble.
I really like the ergos of the LP10 and of course the shock free shot break experience.
In *my* experience the LP10 is a bit more prone to mechanical problems, it seems to have more moving parts that can go out of adjustment.
I think the LP10 is a bit less demanding physically to do a lot of shooting with than the Morini, it just feels lighter and better balanced for me.
--Jerry
jerry.levan-at-eku.edu.44922.44913
-
mako
Re: Why add....
<center><img src="http://images4.fotki.com/v38/photos/4/4 ... "></center>
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.44935.44916
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.44935.44916
-
mako
hmmm ... light morini Trigger ... ?
It always seems like my Morini trigger is too light ... but it always passes the trigger weight test ... my Walther LP300 trigger always feels heavy ... and often need to be adjusted heavier to pass the weight test ...
I'm looking forward to my new Walther LP300 trigger group that is on it's way from Germany ... that is a new redesigned trigger group! :-) Hopefully this one will keep it's settings ... from what I've heard ... it does.
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.44936.44914
I'm looking forward to my new Walther LP300 trigger group that is on it's way from Germany ... that is a new redesigned trigger group! :-) Hopefully this one will keep it's settings ... from what I've heard ... it does.
makofoto-at-earthlink.net.44936.44914
-
Bubba
Re: LP10 trigger is just right for long fingers
: Which means that me and my little stubby fingers are having trouble with the LP10 trigger. The main complaint about the switch from LP1 to 10 was that the new funky adjustable trigger shoe was too long for most people compared to the original simple one.
I too have short stubby fingers. I have an LP-@, which came with the same trigger as the LP-10. I bought a LP-i trigger from ole Warren, and it slips right on and problem solved.
It was Scott that told me about cutting the slot on the LP-1 trigger a little deeper, so it would tighten up, that fixes that problem in minutes.
Respectfully,
Bubba
DanielHankiins-at-wmconnect.com.44942.44913
I too have short stubby fingers. I have an LP-@, which came with the same trigger as the LP-10. I bought a LP-i trigger from ole Warren, and it slips right on and problem solved.
It was Scott that told me about cutting the slot on the LP-1 trigger a little deeper, so it would tighten up, that fixes that problem in minutes.
Respectfully,
Bubba
DanielHankiins-at-wmconnect.com.44942.44913
-
Paul T (UK)
Re: Little known Morini accessory...
I also have an LP10 and 162EI long! I shoot the 162 as I prefer the trigger. Whilst I don't have long fingers, I have an excellent custom grip for right hand/left eye requiring the trigger to be at the front of the adjustment range. I would be very interested in the details of this trigger option!
Regards
Paul
paul-at-lans.demon.co.uk.44948.44922
Regards
Paul
paul-at-lans.demon.co.uk.44948.44922
-
Jerry LeVan
Re: Little known Morini accessory...
Paul,
The extended trigger basically puts the trigger in a more forward position by having the blade more forward on the clamping part of the trigger.
I found out about the accessory from Francesco after complaining about the difficulty of getting a reasonable grip because of my long fingers.
Scott Pilkington was able to get one for me.
--Jerry
jerry.levan-at-eku.edu.44949.44948
The extended trigger basically puts the trigger in a more forward position by having the blade more forward on the clamping part of the trigger.
I found out about the accessory from Francesco after complaining about the difficulty of getting a reasonable grip because of my long fingers.
Scott Pilkington was able to get one for me.
--Jerry
jerry.levan-at-eku.edu.44949.44948
-
John (SWE)
Re: 162IE, or 162EI short? - 162MI!
: So first off, how important are adjustable grips
: for the average shooter?--seems like I could
: waste
: a lot of time messing with them, and what I've
: read here and elsewhere seems to hold that most
: competition guns can be ergonomically adjusted
: to,
: "as is". However, the biggest complaint I've
: read
: against the 162IE's is their lack of adjustable
: grips.
Well, if you can live without the electronic trigger of the 162IE, get a 162MI. You can adjust the grip in any direction. I bought a standard length MI two months ago and it fits my hand so well that even dry-firing is fun... ;-)
/John
.45723.44880
: for the average shooter?--seems like I could
: waste
: a lot of time messing with them, and what I've
: read here and elsewhere seems to hold that most
: competition guns can be ergonomically adjusted
: to,
: "as is". However, the biggest complaint I've
: read
: against the 162IE's is their lack of adjustable
: grips.
Well, if you can live without the electronic trigger of the 162IE, get a 162MI. You can adjust the grip in any direction. I bought a standard length MI two months ago and it fits my hand so well that even dry-firing is fun... ;-)
/John
.45723.44880