5 rounds magazine in small bore rifle?

[jerber]

Hello all
I'm not a rifle shooter but a pistol shooter (both air and rim fire)
A friend and I were discussing rifle shooting and was showing him rifles like the expensive ones that are used in competitions (FWB,Bleiker, Walther,etc...)
So all of them are single shot
He asked why that is and I couldn't really answer him other than maybe the rules and regulations states that it has to be a single shot rifle
But other than that,is there other reasons why they don't make those rifles with multi shots magazine?
Personally I don't think it will benefit anyone but just curious
Thanks Jerry

[David Levene]

ISSF rule 7.4.1.1

Single Loader Rifles. Only single shot rifles that must be manually loaded before each shot may be used, except that in the 300m Standard Rifle event a rifle that is legal for use in International Military Sport Council (CISM) 300m Rifle events may be used if it is checked by Equipment Control before the event.

[jerber]

Thank for the reply
I understand there is a ISSF rule that state only one shot rifle can be use but why is that?

[Martin Catley]

The obvious reply to me is safety. Easy to make sure the breech is clear in a single shot. It is so much easier to Bed a single shot action well than one with all the bits hanging off the bottom! The single shot action is also so much stiffer without the cut out, relating to accuracy.

[Tim S]

I think there are two reasons. The first is that when organised competitive 0.22 shooting began in the early 20th C, many rifles were single shot Ballard and Martini type. Bolt actions were relatively new. Pump and semi-auto repeaters didn't suit slow-fire bullseye shooting. A single loading rule ensured a level playing field.

When bolt action target rifles did appear post-WW2, some were magazine fed. The Winchester 52 and Remington 37 are good examples. However, I believe US-NRA matches at the time had a service shooting element, not just pure target shooting. The conventional prone shooters often disabled the magazine. A magazine would only give a practical advantage in windy weather but there is the risk of damaging a bullet as you load. Practically shooting a match from a magazine would require several extra magazines, as stopping to load would be no faster than single loading.

The second is that ISSF shooting has it's origins in Europe, and single shot rifles were the norm, even when repeaters were available.

[Martin Catley]

Well put Tim I was thinking more of the "modern" 60 shot Matches. The history behind .22 shooting was very much from your "neck of the woods" In the USA the actions seemed to evolve into the single shot Remmington that I know. Did Winchester have a single shot as well? Here in NZ we all learnt to compete with the original single shot BSA's. 12-15 if I have the correct name and then the MK 1 and !!.

[Tim S]

Martin,

The 52 was first designed as a single shot, but a magazine was added before production. The magazine was retained until the D in 1960. Al Freeland and others made single shot adaptors to replace the magazine.

The Winchester and Remington had a following over here, as well as various domestic Martinis. It's normally rendered as 12/15 rather than 12-15, but anyone would know what you meant.

[jerber]

Thanks everyone for your input
I'm myself thinking of getting a target rifle
Nothing too extreme for now
I definitely want a bolt action 22lr
But for me I'm thinking of getting one with a magazine
Any help on choosing one will be very helpful
Thanks Jerry

[Tim S]

Jerber,

There are plenty of bolt action rifles with a magazine, but apart from vintage models like the Winchester 52s I mentioned above, these aren't out and out target rifles. However, if you aren't trying to shoot slow-fire bullseye prone or 3-P with aperture sights, jackets etc, that won't matter so much.

[Modena]

If you're thinking of a rifle, and maybe want a magazine, look at the biathlon rifles, they use 5 shot magazines. Also you can get a magazine adapter, which is usually red, sort of a dummy magazine which just provides a flat tray in the loading area (doesn't hold any rounds), thereby turning the rifle into a single shot. I believe these are legal in the rules, and presumably exist so one may use their biathlon rifle in events which permit only single shot.

[WingsFan]

I would like to know too if a single shot adapter is acceptable to allow a rifle with a magazine to be used in smallbore.

Thanks

[j-team]

Here you go: http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=52523

Or a cheaper option is a BSA Century (not all but some have a 5 shot mag).

[j-team]

ISSF rule 7.4.1.1 Single Loader Rifles. Only single shot rifles that must be manually loaded before each shot may be used, .

So, if a single shot "loading ramp" is fitted to the mag well, I assume it would be compliant?

[beye]

Actually the first National Smallbore matches in which the new Win. 52 competed was at Sea Girt, New Jersey, about 1920 as I remember reading. Rapid fire was part of the course and so required a repeater to realistically compete. Winchester edged out the Savage Model 1919 because the Savage rifle kept shaving lead as it fed from the magazine and their rifles eventually would no longer chamber a round. Rimfire was seen by many as practice for highpower matches and rapid fire matches continued at least up until WWII. I am not sure of the date when they were no longer sanctioned matches. Notably, Winchester discontinued repeaters with the introduction in 1960 of the D model and Remington had already replaced their Model 37 repeater in 1955 with the single shot 40X. Both companies had made single shot adapters for their earlier repeaters. With only slow fire matches sanctioned by the NRA, repeaters were not required, were more expensive to produce and no demand from target shooters. Indoor gallery shooting was extremely popular in the post war years and single loading was certainly safer in that setting. Also, many outdoor ranges for smallbore usually don't have the high backstops of HP ranges, and many were/are located in more populated areas due the low noise level. This may have been the reason why single loading was written into the rules, at least for NRA sanctioned matches.
If the OP wishes a target grade repeater, he might look at the 54.18 MSR (Metallic Silhouette repeater). It's a fine rifle and not nearly as expensive as the Biathlon model. Interestingly enough, here we have two target grade repeaters which are produced for competitions where a repeater has a definite advantage. The targets for both of these are not as challenging (small) as other disciplines, but in both, time is of the essence and the drawbacks of feeding from the magazine are not great enough to prevent clean scores by a good shooter.

[David Levene]

ISSF rule 7.4.1.1 Single Loader Rifles. Only single shot rifles that must be manually loaded before each shot may be used, .

So, if a single shot "loading ramp" is fitted to the mag well, I assume it would be compliant?

That's not a problem.

Rule 6.2.3.3 would also apply:-
Only one cartridge may be loaded in a Rifle or 50m Pistol event if it has a magazine. If a 5-shot Air Pistol is used in a 10m Air Pistol event only one pellet may be loaded.

[NMC_EXP]

I agree with beye regarding the reason for magazine rifles. US smallbore competition was initially intended to be training for service rifle shooting. As a result it did include timed and/or rapid fire stages, so a magazine fed repeater was required. These events along with 200 yard smallbore were phased circa WW2.

Col. Townsend Whelen wrote 'Handbook of Small Bore Rifle Shooting' in the 1930's. It contains information on competition as it existed in that era. He describes an event called "Pursuit Firing" in which the shooter started at 200 yards and moved by 25 or 50 yard increments to 50 yards. At each increment he would stop, get into position and fire five round in 20 seconds (this description is from memory). This event is similar to the "National Trophy Infantry Team" match for service rifle at the US National Championship.

This book and many other out of print items are available at abebooks.com.

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDe ... 1-_-title9

[Hemmers]

As others have said, there's no demand for it - the rules require single-shot loading.

Even if you were allowed to use magazines under the rules, they're more hassle than they're worth for no appreciable advantage.

The course of fire is 60shots Prone, or 120 shots in 3P - therefore a Prone match would require in excess of 6-12 (10/5-shot) magazines to cover the match course plus sighters. The 3P match would need even more - unless you recharge the mags during transitions between positions - but you have better things to be focussing on then.

Whilst a repeater action with a "loading tray magazine" for single-shot loading would be legal under the rules, you then have to question why you're compromising the rigidity of the action with a magazine well that you're never going to use.

As beye mentioned, there are some repeater match-grade rifles for those disciplines that call for it (like Metallic Silhouette and timed shooting), and in a pinch you could use those for ISSF-style TR (assuming the stock allows for handstops/slings, etc) if you are first-and-foremost a silhouette shooter and just want to shoot prone occasionally. But you wouldn't buy such a thing as a main prone/3P rifle.

[ywaltzucanrknrl]

Lots of folks shoot single shots in Silhouette. The Walther KKMS and the Anschutz 54MS are common rifles at silhouette matches and they are both dedicated single shots---mainly for the Standard Rifle event. For the Hunter Rifle events, magazine rifles are used as the rules stated the ammo is to be loaded from the magazine.
So you can shoot a single shot in at least the Standard Rifle event in Silhouette, however many people choose to simplify and just shoot one rifle, a Hunter Rifle in both events.

[acorneau]

... For the Hunter Rifle events, magazine rifles are used as the rules stated the ammo is to be loaded from the magazine.

Actually, according to the rulebook (section 3.2.1) a smallbore Hunter rifle "may be a single loading rifle". You may have heard of the "FrankenHunter" rifles that are single-shot but comply with the Hunter rifle rules (tapered barrel, 2lb. trigger, etc.).

[ywaltzucanrknrl]

Thanks for pointing that out Alan---it's probably north of fifteen years since I shot a sanctioned match. The club matches I shoot are pretty much shot with the concept that "anything safe" is legal.