Raising the Cheek Rest
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
Raising the Cheek Rest
After installing a bloop tube on my FWB 2700 I have to raise my rear sight. Despite raising my cheek rest all the way up, I am still 2" short. Is there a quick and dirty way to put materials on top of the rest to make up the 2", and what materials should I use that is both solid and legal in competition? Or is there a specialist out there to make a custom cheek rest that can fit the 2700 (including molding the bottom pf the cheek rest so that it can be secured correctly with the tooth rack)?
Re: Raising the Cheek Rest
2in low? That must be a very long tube to need a 2in elevation change. I'd expect the cheekpiece to have enough movement to cover the normal rearsight range.
Is this a 2700 Supermatch (alu stock) or 2700 Universal (laminate UIT stock)?
Normally when anyone adds material to an adjustable cheekpiece, it's a relatively thin amount just to change the shape for face fit. Card and sticky tape won't cut it for 2in. Modelling epoxy might, but will spend forever drying.
Instead I think wood is a better choice. You could make a new cheekpiece that's 2in taller. An easier way is a spacer between the factory cheekpiece, and the lifting hardware.
Is this a 2700 Supermatch (alu stock) or 2700 Universal (laminate UIT stock)?
Normally when anyone adds material to an adjustable cheekpiece, it's a relatively thin amount just to change the shape for face fit. Card and sticky tape won't cut it for 2in. Modelling epoxy might, but will spend forever drying.
Instead I think wood is a better choice. You could make a new cheekpiece that's 2in taller. An easier way is a spacer between the factory cheekpiece, and the lifting hardware.
Re: Raising the Cheek Rest
Unfortunately the front sight does not lineup with the rear sight when the bloop tube is installed. So to solve the problem I have to put risers on BOTH sights to make it even. The sight risers have a minimum setting of around 1 inch. After that you can raise it by putting extra washers, in this case, one riser will need more washers than the other. Consider the risers also need conversion because they were designed for Walter as opposed to FWB, this makes the risers even higher. thus ends up around 2". My cheek rest is already slightly low even when fully extended, so this makes it worse. The tube is 16" long.Tim S wrote:2in low? That must be a very long tube to need a 2in elevation change. I'd expect the cheekpiece to have enough movement to cover the normal rearsight range.
Re: Raising the Cheek Rest
Conradin,
Unless I'm misreading you, don't worry about the change of sight alignment. This is normal after fitting a tube. Changing the sight radius like this alters the angle between the sights, ie the apparent height of the foresight, so the rearsight elevation is out of whack. Sometimes the windage is off too, if the tube (or original foresight mount) isn't dead on 12 o'clock*. Normally you just have to re-zero on paper.
A 1in raiser is pretty tall, let alone 2in. Most start at 8mm-10mm. Unless you need to have the sights 1in+ higher for comfort, maybe look for a lower raiser just for the rearsight? A rear-only raiser should compensate for the effect of the tube, without using up all the rearsight adjustment. Make sure it's FWB compatible too, and your cheekpiece problem may go away.
Regarding the bloop tube itself, can I ask why you chose one that long? 16in is really really long. I've seen tubes that long on Anschutz 2013s, but these have short (50cm) barrels. However the 2700 barrel is full-length at 67cm. Some shooters (particularly prone only) put a 12in tube on a full-length barrel, but I've not seen a 16in. A tube this long is really going to show the wobble in your hold, adds a lot of weight, and is a big old sail in the wind. Personally I'd leave the factory 4in extension until your hold is rock steady and you can appreciate the longer sight base.
*If the windage zero is really far off, it may be possible to loosen the new tube and rotate around the muzzle, so the rearsight is in the middle for windage.
Unless I'm misreading you, don't worry about the change of sight alignment. This is normal after fitting a tube. Changing the sight radius like this alters the angle between the sights, ie the apparent height of the foresight, so the rearsight elevation is out of whack. Sometimes the windage is off too, if the tube (or original foresight mount) isn't dead on 12 o'clock*. Normally you just have to re-zero on paper.
A 1in raiser is pretty tall, let alone 2in. Most start at 8mm-10mm. Unless you need to have the sights 1in+ higher for comfort, maybe look for a lower raiser just for the rearsight? A rear-only raiser should compensate for the effect of the tube, without using up all the rearsight adjustment. Make sure it's FWB compatible too, and your cheekpiece problem may go away.
Regarding the bloop tube itself, can I ask why you chose one that long? 16in is really really long. I've seen tubes that long on Anschutz 2013s, but these have short (50cm) barrels. However the 2700 barrel is full-length at 67cm. Some shooters (particularly prone only) put a 12in tube on a full-length barrel, but I've not seen a 16in. A tube this long is really going to show the wobble in your hold, adds a lot of weight, and is a big old sail in the wind. Personally I'd leave the factory 4in extension until your hold is rock steady and you can appreciate the longer sight base.
*If the windage zero is really far off, it may be possible to loosen the new tube and rotate around the muzzle, so the rearsight is in the middle for windage.
Re: Raising the Cheek Rest
My fault for measuring it wrong.
The tube is 36cm (14"). When I asked Guy Starik how he came up with this length and how come he has multiple lengths for the same tube, he said every tube has a different length and he came up with the length by calculating the harmonics. I can always move the front sight fore and back to my own liking, but the 2700 has to be 14" unless theoretically you want it to be 2 or 3 feet longer than that because of the sin wave.
Without raising the rear sight, it is impossible to dial in, I ran out of clicks. It took me awhile to realize that the tube does not make adjustment about the front sight, so the sight base is significantly higher.
I double check again, I cannot see clearly without rolling my eyes all the way up, and after awhile I got tired because of the strain to my neck, which is not supposed to happen. To be secure I need my cheek rest to be 200mm higher, or better yet, the sighs to be 200mm lower. But my sight riser is 300mm at the base (plus whatever is on top). I cannot find a brand that provides a sight riser that has
a shorter base height. If I can find a brand that has height of 150 mm, there will be enough leeway that I can play with, so I will be good.
I know it is not my technique, because last year I used a junior women standard rifle that was too short for me (the butt) but perfect for the height of the sights, I managed to shoot averaging a mediocre score of 8.5 with acceptable grouping. But right now it is impossible to consistently hold a grouping simply because I am trying to use my neck and roll my eyes to compensate.
For the record this is my first modern rifle. Before that I used essentially club junior and women rifles, or a 54 year olds Anschutz that has a left hand stock but right hand action.
That means if I cannot find a solution via the sights, then I have to come up with something (new wood, or new padding) to be put on top of the cheek rest that raise it by around 150 to 200mm, which is between 3/4 to 1". Any material would you recommend if I go for the padding route without ruining the original wood cheek rest?
The tube is 36cm (14"). When I asked Guy Starik how he came up with this length and how come he has multiple lengths for the same tube, he said every tube has a different length and he came up with the length by calculating the harmonics. I can always move the front sight fore and back to my own liking, but the 2700 has to be 14" unless theoretically you want it to be 2 or 3 feet longer than that because of the sin wave.
Without raising the rear sight, it is impossible to dial in, I ran out of clicks. It took me awhile to realize that the tube does not make adjustment about the front sight, so the sight base is significantly higher.
I double check again, I cannot see clearly without rolling my eyes all the way up, and after awhile I got tired because of the strain to my neck, which is not supposed to happen. To be secure I need my cheek rest to be 200mm higher, or better yet, the sighs to be 200mm lower. But my sight riser is 300mm at the base (plus whatever is on top). I cannot find a brand that provides a sight riser that has
a shorter base height. If I can find a brand that has height of 150 mm, there will be enough leeway that I can play with, so I will be good.
I know it is not my technique, because last year I used a junior women standard rifle that was too short for me (the butt) but perfect for the height of the sights, I managed to shoot averaging a mediocre score of 8.5 with acceptable grouping. But right now it is impossible to consistently hold a grouping simply because I am trying to use my neck and roll my eyes to compensate.
For the record this is my first modern rifle. Before that I used essentially club junior and women rifles, or a 54 year olds Anschutz that has a left hand stock but right hand action.
That means if I cannot find a solution via the sights, then I have to come up with something (new wood, or new padding) to be put on top of the cheek rest that raise it by around 150 to 200mm, which is between 3/4 to 1". Any material would you recommend if I go for the padding route without ruining the original wood cheek rest?
Re: Raising the Cheek Rest
Conradin,
OK, you're using a Starik tuner. The long tubes do run quite long, but are lighter than a regular aluminium tube. Yes, you can position the foresight further back. Don't forget you need to increase the diameter of the foresight aperture; an extra 0.1mm per inch is a rough start. It's better to calculate the increase as a proportion of old sight radius/aperture size vs new.
Have you tried a raiser block under the rearsight only? Something that is adjustable for height, like the Centra Club, is ideal. These start at 10mm, which should compensate for the length of the tube and the change in foresight height. You may find you can get your eye behind the sights more comfortably then.
Once you have re-zeroed the rifle, you can worry about raising BOTH sights for comfort (if still required). Adjustable raisers will allow you to raise the rearsight more, to compensate for the tube. I have 18mm at the rear, and 16mm at the front, for prone ; that's a 36in sight radius and a 22mm foresight.
Your raiser block measurements seem awry: do you mean 20mm and 30mm not 200mm and 300mm? The later are 8in and 12in.
What position/s are you shooting?
OK, you're using a Starik tuner. The long tubes do run quite long, but are lighter than a regular aluminium tube. Yes, you can position the foresight further back. Don't forget you need to increase the diameter of the foresight aperture; an extra 0.1mm per inch is a rough start. It's better to calculate the increase as a proportion of old sight radius/aperture size vs new.
Have you tried a raiser block under the rearsight only? Something that is adjustable for height, like the Centra Club, is ideal. These start at 10mm, which should compensate for the length of the tube and the change in foresight height. You may find you can get your eye behind the sights more comfortably then.
Once you have re-zeroed the rifle, you can worry about raising BOTH sights for comfort (if still required). Adjustable raisers will allow you to raise the rearsight more, to compensate for the tube. I have 18mm at the rear, and 16mm at the front, for prone ; that's a 36in sight radius and a 22mm foresight.
Your raiser block measurements seem awry: do you mean 20mm and 30mm not 200mm and 300mm? The later are 8in and 12in.
What position/s are you shooting?
Re: Raising the Cheek Rest
Yes, it is 30mm and 20mm, not 300 and 200mm. The position is prone and knee.
FWB has just emailed me back 15 minutes ago and they came up with a part that solves the problem. They have 20mm long spacers that can be stacked underneath the cheek rest with corresponding long screws. That should take care of it using this route because 20mm is the maximum that I need.
I will also ask them if they have a sight line elevation that will cover the difference between the starik tube sight height and the regular 2700 rear sight height. They have a 8.5mm and a 13mm version of sight line elevation. But they are listed as accessories for the 800, so I do not know if they work for the 2700.
I figure I may as well order all three products and give them a try since shipping is the main cost while the actual parts do not cost that much. So either I raise the cheek rest, or take away all my sight risers and simply raise the rear sight with an FWB sight base.
FWB has just emailed me back 15 minutes ago and they came up with a part that solves the problem. They have 20mm long spacers that can be stacked underneath the cheek rest with corresponding long screws. That should take care of it using this route because 20mm is the maximum that I need.
I will also ask them if they have a sight line elevation that will cover the difference between the starik tube sight height and the regular 2700 rear sight height. They have a 8.5mm and a 13mm version of sight line elevation. But they are listed as accessories for the 800, so I do not know if they work for the 2700.
I figure I may as well order all three products and give them a try since shipping is the main cost while the actual parts do not cost that much. So either I raise the cheek rest, or take away all my sight risers and simply raise the rear sight with an FWB sight base.
Re: Raising the Cheek Rest
Conradin,
FWB aren't the only source of raiser blocks for a 2700. Centra, Gehmann, and Tec-Hro make them. See here: http://www.intershoot.co.uk/acatalog/Sight_Blocks.html
A US dealer may have some in stock, reducing shipping time and costs.
Since you find the current blocks are too tall for your neck, I would try lower blocks before cheekpiece extensions.
FWB aren't the only source of raiser blocks for a 2700. Centra, Gehmann, and Tec-Hro make them. See here: http://www.intershoot.co.uk/acatalog/Sight_Blocks.html
A US dealer may have some in stock, reducing shipping time and costs.
Since you find the current blocks are too tall for your neck, I would try lower blocks before cheekpiece extensions.
Re: Raising the Cheek Rest
I made spacers for mine when I made 18mm risers.
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BJLXcrQB5IW ... e_shop3127