Hello all!
I shoot 3-P Smallbore (outdoor and indoor), International, and 3-P air rifle.
My eyesight is fairly bad, having both astigmatism and being near sighted. For all of my shooting activities I use toric contact lenses, toward the end of the firing time my eyes get dry and somewhat uncomfortable.
Recently someone suggested I purchase a pair of adjustable shooting frames and get the lenses ground to my prescription.
I would to know personal experiences with these frames, especially pertaining to shooting 3-P and with astigmatism.
If you recommend them what brand?
How long to adjust for the various positions?
Around how much money total having them outfitted?
I appreciate any feedback and info,
Thanks in advance,
Amanda
.44024.0
Contacts vs. Prescription Adjustable Shooting Glasses
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
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Bill Poole
Re: Contacts vs. Prescription Adjustable Shooting Glasses
I was told a few years ago that with contacts the lens is floating on a layer of tear and the amount of tear is different every time you blink your eye, as is the exact location on the cornea the lens is floating and if the lens has astigmatism correction, then the orientation may change from blink to blink.
The difference is almost imperceptable if you are watching a movie, but important if you are trying to shoot precisly.
Additionally, you have already noted the dryness.
Also, especially with High Power Rifle where I came from, there is a lot of going on, outdoor wind, arizona dust, powder smoke etc....
Also many ranges and many shooting events mandate the use of safety glasses. If you have both contacts and safety glasses you already have 2 layers of plastice between you and the front sight, before you add the sunshades, filtered aperture or BJones sight lens.... etc
All of these conspire to cause me to believe that contacts are the wrong choice for shooting.
I have been using glasses, prescription or prescription +0.5 diopter, and will continue to use them for service rifle... and just yesterday I got my Knobloch lens and tried it. I will use that system for all serious smallbore and pistol...
It appears as though the glasses put the optical center over the center of your eye only if you are looking straight ahead, you are looking out the edge of the lens when shooting rifle. The Knoblock/Champion system allows you the hang the lens parallel with the cornea (I noticed a huge difference tilting it back and forth) and center it right over you eye, even when in position... My astigmatism is low, 0.25 but enough that I felt it would help to always be centered and aligned.
we'll see how my scores go...
Knoblochs seem to be the most popular, but when i emailed my friend to say i ordered them he told me to cancel the order and change to Champion. That would have been $100 more and although I've only used them once, I have no reason yet to think the knoblochs are not entirely suitable.
Both company's have websites but i don't have the URLs at this computer, you should be able to give the lens holder and your prescription to a LOCAL optician and get a plastic lens made, even if you want to offset it +0.25 or +0.5 diopter, if you have trouble finding an optician shop (or if you are in Phoenix) contact me.
good shooting..
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
bill-at-poole.com.44030.44024
The difference is almost imperceptable if you are watching a movie, but important if you are trying to shoot precisly.
Additionally, you have already noted the dryness.
Also, especially with High Power Rifle where I came from, there is a lot of going on, outdoor wind, arizona dust, powder smoke etc....
Also many ranges and many shooting events mandate the use of safety glasses. If you have both contacts and safety glasses you already have 2 layers of plastice between you and the front sight, before you add the sunshades, filtered aperture or BJones sight lens.... etc
All of these conspire to cause me to believe that contacts are the wrong choice for shooting.
I have been using glasses, prescription or prescription +0.5 diopter, and will continue to use them for service rifle... and just yesterday I got my Knobloch lens and tried it. I will use that system for all serious smallbore and pistol...
It appears as though the glasses put the optical center over the center of your eye only if you are looking straight ahead, you are looking out the edge of the lens when shooting rifle. The Knoblock/Champion system allows you the hang the lens parallel with the cornea (I noticed a huge difference tilting it back and forth) and center it right over you eye, even when in position... My astigmatism is low, 0.25 but enough that I felt it would help to always be centered and aligned.
we'll see how my scores go...
Knoblochs seem to be the most popular, but when i emailed my friend to say i ordered them he told me to cancel the order and change to Champion. That would have been $100 more and although I've only used them once, I have no reason yet to think the knoblochs are not entirely suitable.
Both company's have websites but i don't have the URLs at this computer, you should be able to give the lens holder and your prescription to a LOCAL optician and get a plastic lens made, even if you want to offset it +0.25 or +0.5 diopter, if you have trouble finding an optician shop (or if you are in Phoenix) contact me.
good shooting..
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
bill-at-poole.com.44030.44024
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Bob
Re: Contacts vs. Prescription Adjustable Shooting Glasses
:... Knoblochs seem to be the most popular, but when i emailed my friend to say i ordered them he told me to cancel the order and change to Champion. That would have been $100 more and although I've only used them once, I have no reason yet to think the knoblochs are not entirely suitable...
Bill, It's entirely up to the shooter, I was told the same thing. I had Champion's and sold them to get my Knobloch's. In fact I just got a new pair on Knobloch's for my rifle shooting.
.44042.44030
Bill, It's entirely up to the shooter, I was told the same thing. I had Champion's and sold them to get my Knobloch's. In fact I just got a new pair on Knobloch's for my rifle shooting.
.44042.44030
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Roland Cannon
Re: Contacts vs. Prescription Adjustable Shooting Glasses
I know the feeling! My eyesight is bad as well. Contacts get very dry after an hour or so.
I tried the shooting glasses and they are ok. The contact lenses spoil a person as far as vision correction goes. I can read the 20/10 eyechart with contacts, nothing better than 20/40 with glasses.
My solution was a GIANT size container of eyedrops from Sams Club.
.44044.44024
I tried the shooting glasses and they are ok. The contact lenses spoil a person as far as vision correction goes. I can read the 20/10 eyechart with contacts, nothing better than 20/40 with glasses.
My solution was a GIANT size container of eyedrops from Sams Club.
.44044.44024
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Michael Ray
Prescription Adjustable Shooting Glasses (KEN J.)
: I would to know personal experiences with these frames, especially pertaining to shooting 3-P and with astigmatism.
I use Knoblochs and have astigmatism, not that the later really matters much. You don't rotate the lens within the holder, you just move the holder so it's perpendicular to the sight line. Your optician will need to set the lens in the holder at the right angle, and I suggest you mark the edge of the lens with the joint so you know if it does rotate or you need to remove it for some reason.
: If you recommend them what brand?
Ditto the Knobloch recommendation. The Champions are great but cost more. I believe they have a system to adjust while in position.
: How long to adjust for the various positions?
Most people don't do this. Set it up for standing and leave it there for P&K. A few really picky world-class shooters will have a pair for each position.
: Around how much money total having them outfitted?
Knoblocks are like $110-120 and usually $30-40 for you to get a lens made.
The thing to watch is getting the right prescription. I note Ken J made a comment a while back about it having to be just right or he couldn't see well or something to that effect. I'd be interested to hear precisely what he did because I found that it didn't matter one bit, which surprised me until I thought about it.
The lens in one of these holders is going to be much further away from your eye than normal glasses so in theory your doctor will need to compensate for this. This is *definitely* the case if you shoot pistol where you do not have an iris. I had always heard you wanted +.25 or +.5 from your normal prescription as well so you see the front sight in focus rather than the bull (again for pistol mostly) so I wanted to see how that translated to rifle.
A few years back my doc let me borrow some loose lenses +/-.25 and +/-.5 from my normal prescription and I went to the range and played around with them. Got in prone and started doing AB comparisons of lenses (just like the doctor's office) and to my surprise couldn't tell a darn difference in clarity from the strongest to weakest WHILE LOOKING THROUGH THE IRIS. Just looking around was another story (things weren't the right size). I did need to have SOME lens in though. However, if I could turn the iris down small enough (0.5 mm) and still have enough light, I could see nearly as well as with a lens. I sometimes shoot without my lens and crank the iris all the way down (0.8) and center the fuzzy blob in the fuzzy ring and do just as well.
Anyway, once I thought about the geometric optics involved it made sense why this was the case. Because of the iris, the light rays entering the eye are concentrated on the center of the lens where the curvature approaches 0 so varying the curvature doesn't have much noticeable effect. Now if you have REALLY bad eyes, which I suspect might be Ken J's issue, it would have a larger effect. My eye is somewhere in +3-4 range. So if you're 6 or more you probably don't want to use your "normal" prescription as noted above.
.44047.44024
I use Knoblochs and have astigmatism, not that the later really matters much. You don't rotate the lens within the holder, you just move the holder so it's perpendicular to the sight line. Your optician will need to set the lens in the holder at the right angle, and I suggest you mark the edge of the lens with the joint so you know if it does rotate or you need to remove it for some reason.
: If you recommend them what brand?
Ditto the Knobloch recommendation. The Champions are great but cost more. I believe they have a system to adjust while in position.
: How long to adjust for the various positions?
Most people don't do this. Set it up for standing and leave it there for P&K. A few really picky world-class shooters will have a pair for each position.
: Around how much money total having them outfitted?
Knoblocks are like $110-120 and usually $30-40 for you to get a lens made.
The thing to watch is getting the right prescription. I note Ken J made a comment a while back about it having to be just right or he couldn't see well or something to that effect. I'd be interested to hear precisely what he did because I found that it didn't matter one bit, which surprised me until I thought about it.
The lens in one of these holders is going to be much further away from your eye than normal glasses so in theory your doctor will need to compensate for this. This is *definitely* the case if you shoot pistol where you do not have an iris. I had always heard you wanted +.25 or +.5 from your normal prescription as well so you see the front sight in focus rather than the bull (again for pistol mostly) so I wanted to see how that translated to rifle.
A few years back my doc let me borrow some loose lenses +/-.25 and +/-.5 from my normal prescription and I went to the range and played around with them. Got in prone and started doing AB comparisons of lenses (just like the doctor's office) and to my surprise couldn't tell a darn difference in clarity from the strongest to weakest WHILE LOOKING THROUGH THE IRIS. Just looking around was another story (things weren't the right size). I did need to have SOME lens in though. However, if I could turn the iris down small enough (0.5 mm) and still have enough light, I could see nearly as well as with a lens. I sometimes shoot without my lens and crank the iris all the way down (0.8) and center the fuzzy blob in the fuzzy ring and do just as well.
Anyway, once I thought about the geometric optics involved it made sense why this was the case. Because of the iris, the light rays entering the eye are concentrated on the center of the lens where the curvature approaches 0 so varying the curvature doesn't have much noticeable effect. Now if you have REALLY bad eyes, which I suspect might be Ken J's issue, it would have a larger effect. My eye is somewhere in +3-4 range. So if you're 6 or more you probably don't want to use your "normal" prescription as noted above.
.44047.44024
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David
Re: Contacts vs. Prescription Adjustable Shooting Glasses
: I, too, am near sighted. I shoot 3p air, smallbore and international air with the Champion Olympic shooting frame. Works just fine, totally adjustable. I do not make any adjustment to the frame between positions. I use the same perscription for my shooting lense as I do in my normal glasses, and I can see just fine while I am shooting.
I think the possibility of a contact coming off center during a match is a big negative. I am not willing to risk it, and I feel that the shooting frame is a much simpler way to correct vision than messing with all the contact lens solutions.
Obviously, I recommend the glasses. I am a huge fan of my Champions. They are a bit more expensive than Knobloch, but a friend of mine had serious problems with his Knoblochs and was never able to make the lens focus. Champions are also by far the most adjustable frame available.
.44069.44024
I think the possibility of a contact coming off center during a match is a big negative. I am not willing to risk it, and I feel that the shooting frame is a much simpler way to correct vision than messing with all the contact lens solutions.
Obviously, I recommend the glasses. I am a huge fan of my Champions. They are a bit more expensive than Knobloch, but a friend of mine had serious problems with his Knoblochs and was never able to make the lens focus. Champions are also by far the most adjustable frame available.
.44069.44024
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BE
Re: Contacts vs. Prescription Adjustable Shooting Glasses
The decision is not the same for each shooter. I use contacts, and I fill contacts were much better for me. Here are some points to consider:
1. How high is your prescription? Higher number prescription will cause the target to look small if using glasses vs. contacts.
2. How much tears does your eyes have naturally. If you use contacts you do not want the eyes to get dry in the middle of a long match. Frequent blinking can solve this problem very easily.
3. Personally, I did not fill the contact moving, first time I am being aware of it.
4. Many members of the NT are using contacts, as well as many International shooters. Although it does not mean that you should use contacts, I would suggest you should not reject the idea of using them.
4. With glasses you might have a fog problem (sweating, etc.), this is solved easily with one eye blink if you use contacts.
5. The investment of trying contacts is very small compare to other equipment we are using. I would recommend trying them, and make your own decision later.
BE-at-excite.com.44070.44024
1. How high is your prescription? Higher number prescription will cause the target to look small if using glasses vs. contacts.
2. How much tears does your eyes have naturally. If you use contacts you do not want the eyes to get dry in the middle of a long match. Frequent blinking can solve this problem very easily.
3. Personally, I did not fill the contact moving, first time I am being aware of it.
4. Many members of the NT are using contacts, as well as many International shooters. Although it does not mean that you should use contacts, I would suggest you should not reject the idea of using them.
4. With glasses you might have a fog problem (sweating, etc.), this is solved easily with one eye blink if you use contacts.
5. The investment of trying contacts is very small compare to other equipment we are using. I would recommend trying them, and make your own decision later.
BE-at-excite.com.44070.44024
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Joseph
Re: Prescription Adjustable Shooting Glasses (KEN J.)
I have champions, and an astigmatism. It takes me less than 30 seconds to adjust between positons, and i can't see without doing it. Adjusting knoblochs is completely unreproduceable, and that's why the champions cost more.
Also, my eyes are not that bad (shooting eye is -0.75) and i notice huge differences with or without them. The lens primarily corrects the astigmatism, and although i have 20/20 vision uncorrected, i need them. Depending on how precise your demands for your vision are, you may or may not need to adjust diopter for distance from your eye. You may or may not need glasses. I know people with 20/40 vision that use no lenses because they can't tell a difference...i can tell aesthetic and functional differences in 20/20 uncorrected and 20/15 corrected.
.44095.44047
Also, my eyes are not that bad (shooting eye is -0.75) and i notice huge differences with or without them. The lens primarily corrects the astigmatism, and although i have 20/20 vision uncorrected, i need them. Depending on how precise your demands for your vision are, you may or may not need to adjust diopter for distance from your eye. You may or may not need glasses. I know people with 20/40 vision that use no lenses because they can't tell a difference...i can tell aesthetic and functional differences in 20/20 uncorrected and 20/15 corrected.
.44095.44047
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ken benyo
Re: Contacts vs. Prescription Adjustable Shooting Glasses
I too have very poor eye sight and an astigmatism, but I have been successful in using contacts.
I would recommend talking to your optometrist about the dryness and see if there is another type of lens that may be better for you. I personally have success with Acuvue.
I would not totally rule out glasses, however trying a few different types of contacts may solve the problem. Your optometrist should be happy to help you and give you several types of lenses for free.....the ones that I got to try were samples.
Every shooter is different, so do what you feel works best for you.
teamonster-at-rcn.com.44099.44024
I would recommend talking to your optometrist about the dryness and see if there is another type of lens that may be better for you. I personally have success with Acuvue.
I would not totally rule out glasses, however trying a few different types of contacts may solve the problem. Your optometrist should be happy to help you and give you several types of lenses for free.....the ones that I got to try were samples.
Every shooter is different, so do what you feel works best for you.
teamonster-at-rcn.com.44099.44024
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ken benyo
Re: Contacts vs. Prescription Adjustable Shooting Glasses
I too have very poor eye sight and an astigmatism, but I have been successful in using contacts.
I would recommend talking to your optometrist about the dryness and see if there is another type of lens that may be better for you. I personally have success with Acuvue.
I would not totally rule out glasses, however trying a few different types of contacts may solve the problem. Your optometrist should be happy to help you and give you several types of lenses for free.....the ones that I got to try were samples.
Every shooter is different, so do what you feel works best for you.
teamonster-at-rcn.com.44100.44024
I would recommend talking to your optometrist about the dryness and see if there is another type of lens that may be better for you. I personally have success with Acuvue.
I would not totally rule out glasses, however trying a few different types of contacts may solve the problem. Your optometrist should be happy to help you and give you several types of lenses for free.....the ones that I got to try were samples.
Every shooter is different, so do what you feel works best for you.
teamonster-at-rcn.com.44100.44024