2017-2018 USAS JOs now running by ISSF rules

[redschietti]

If i understsnd target scan corectly it ignores the lines.

[GrapeJuice]

TargetScan has been a great tool for us to use when my son practices at home. He shoots air on National Target AR10s and the app works pretty flawlessly. Especially with the right background behind the target when scanning. We have run into some trouble when he goes to the club and uses Orion targets. When scoring those, we have to be very careful to check the photo before moving to the next target. I'm assuming that because they are a proprietary system, the Orion targets are just different enough from a standard NRA bullseye to cause the app some confusion. We sometimes have to take a picture of the same target 5, 6, 7... times before it scores it correctly.

All that and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee.

[rtucker6508]

First, I would volunteer to help USAS in any way possible. We are moving out to Colorado Springs at the end of this school year so I am open!

Second, at some point we need to ensure that the US shooters are following the ISSF rules. They will have to do it at some point to enter into National/International matches, so the question is how do we help with a transition to "legal" rules?

As a parent and a coach, I see so many programs that are using antiquated equipment and just simply not willing to go through the upgrade process or make the changes. There are many options to raise money to pay for the correct equipment it just takes time and effort. As an example just look at what Gregg and Diane Rice have done with the X Count program (https://www.thexcount.com/). That should be a model for any junior shooting program.

I know that this doesn't help for this year but we truly need to start building the US shooting program like the European programs (not in the legal sense of course, but in support and recognition).

- R

[jhmartin]

Wow ... that got a bit off topic .... Back on again:
http://www.usashooting.org/library/Comp ... Update.pdf

I would add one more: Qualifiers in Air Rifle Scored in Integer. JOs in April in Decimal

Text:
ISSF Rule Update Notes:
1) In the new ISSF Rulebook there is a restriction against using 140mm buttstock on rifles . This rule will be exempted at the Junior Olympic level until further notice.

2) ISSF 10m Rifle "Weights" Update: We will follow the requirement for the weights to be within the fundamental shape of the stock. This means that when attaching weights you can NOT have any tape on the outside of the weights themselves.

3) The recent ISSF rules call for a boot flexibility test that many clubs may not have access to. Although I would encourage you to do this for your competitors if you can, we will exempt this rule from the STATE Junior Olympic Match. As we approach National Junior Olympics I will clarify to all competitors what rules will and will not be enforced.

4) All other ISSF Rule updates, including the new allowances on buttplate and forend depth, will be in effect for the 2017/2018 State and National Junior Olympics with the inclusion of blinders and corrective lenses.

A) Blinders – Rifle and pistol athletes can use one front blinder (30 mm maximum width) but may no longer wear side blinders.

B) Corrective Optics - Rifle athletes will be allowed to place a single corrective lens in or on their rear sights.

Thank You,
Alex Szablewski
Competitions/Events Manager

[David Levene]

B) Corrective Optics - Rifle athletes will be allowed to place a single corrective lens in or on their rear sights.

Strange.

The V1 rules issued 5th December 2016, 7.4.1.6.c said "A single corrective lens may be inserted in or attached to the rear sight only; or the athlete may wear corrective or tinted lenses"

In the re-issued V1 rules 13th December 2016 "inserted in or" was struck through.

The V1.1 rules state "A single corrective lens may be attached to the rear sight only; or the athlete
may wear corrective or tinted lenses"

[COBelties]

I believe Marc Orvin wrote Alex about the 1.1 issue on corrective lens. I forgot to ask him this weekend but will follow up and see if there is something new to add to the conversation.

[Marc Orvin]

I sent Alex an email about his corrective lens issue. Here is his response:
Hello Marc,

Thank you for letting me know of this rule change. I will get an updated list of rule updates out there with a note that it has changed. Gotta love the constant rule changes.

Thank you,
Alex Szablewski

Two days later he posted on Facebook the same thing that Joel posted abpve, without the correction. I'm assuming that he will correct it at a later date.

Here's another thing that was not addressed:
7.5.4.5 The construction of the side panel may not place any seam or seams under the
elbow of the support arm in the standing position within a seam-free zone that
extends 70 mm above the tip of the elbow and 20 mm below the tip of the elbow.
This must be checked with the athlete wearing the jacket fully closed and while
holding the rifle in the standing position.

In the old USA Shooting rules was a statement after this rule that said it would not be adopted by USA Shooting. Since the declaration has gone forth that we will be following 2017 ISSF Rules, I would have to assume that this rule will be enforced. I believe it is Gehmann jackets that have this seam. Would be good to get this rule out to folks as well, if it is indeed going to be enforced.

I'll drop a note to Alex.

Can someone confirm for me that it is Gehmann jackets that have this seam? I'm not near any equipment now to check this. Thanks
Marc

[redschietti]

Eliz first custom jacket, ordered right before the rule change, had a seam placed exactly where her elbow goes in standing. They put it there on purpose, i remember them measuring where her elbow went. I also remember stitching in a legal panal by hand till 3am on match day!! Fun times

[redschietti]

Joel, i think its most fair to keep jr olympic qualifier in integer. A lot of us still shoot on two 12 bull targets. I know orion can score them in decimal. BUT integer scores are higher using electronics and decimal scores are significantly higher. The newer, shorter times make it harder, changing npa 20 times as well. Scores go up 5-10 points when switching from paper to electronic

[jhmartin]

The Jacket seam rule was brought just after the quad in 2012.

I remember Rachel's jacket (KT) ordered before her Freshman year had to be modified to go shoot international matches. Her collegiate HiTex also had to be modified. I've used Sius target rubber, and had Jody in C-Springs sew those in for me, and they are still going strong.
We have been occasionally checking that at National matches over the past 4 years now.
(I remember Jim's excellent stitching job ... but sewing things up is part of his day job!)

We know they will score in integer on the AR events as they have not changed the AutoQual scores.

Hey Jim .... remember these days? 2013 .... The match I had to have her blue jacket fixed for....
Rach, Eliz & Deanna

[redschietti]

Wow! Thanks for sharing! Dont think ive seen that pic

[Jslaughter]

How will they be determining the pairings for the mixed team match at winter air? Do we need to find a partner? Do they assign a partner? Also girls outnumber boys so what happens with the remainder? Lots of questions very few answers out there.

[jhmartin]

That has not ben published ...
Soooo .... make it as easy for them as you can ... come in with a pairing if you can.

[jhmartin]

I stand corrected:

When the program was updated with the mixed team information there was a section added that talks about this point exactly. Located on the second page of the match program, which I have attached here for convenience, is a section entitled, “New For This Year”. In this it talks about how the qualification stages will be shot and how teams are determined. I have included for you this information below with the most important parts highlighted:

NEW FOR THIS YEAR:

New for this year will be the introduction of the mixed team event featured on day 3. The competition course of fire for this day will feature a 40 shot match for all men and women. The relays will be mixed, squadded high to low based of the first two days, and will determine who makes the final. The top male will be paired with the top female and that will be the first team to make finals. Second team will be 2nd male and 2nd place female, etc. The rules for the mixed team event can be found at http://www.issf-sports.org/getfile.aspx ... ts_10m.pdf

As far as having more females then males this solution is solved by allowing everyone to compete as an individual during the qualification course of fire. This was the only way that we could find to make it fair for all competitors and to not leave anyone out.

Thank You,
Alex Szablewski

USA Shooting competitions and coaches do not understand the team dynamic of this match (how could they? ... it is new and they themselves have never shot in this) and how the teams MUST practice together and learn each others timing, shooting rhythm and how to encourage each other... especially in the finals. Pairing off shooter 1 men w/ shooter 1 women and so on down the line, w/o them ever trained in the event together only makes the USA team weaker than it could be.

[redschietti]

Lets be realistic, the usa isnt going to send a team to the olympics, we will send the winner of our mar trials and our war trials. They will be our team even if they hate each other

[jhmartin]

Jim .... hope springs eternal. Who knows how/if a team is qualified by ISSF .... If it's by medaling in a WC ... maybe USAS will see the error of their ways .... :-)

[COBelties]

How will they be determining the pairings for the mixed team match at winter air? Do we need to find a partner? Do they assign a partner? Also girls outnumber boys so what happens with the remainder? Lots of questions very few answers out there.

The latest I heard is that they will be pairing up teams at WAG based on qualifying rank and participant interest, instead of registered pairs. But I think that's all up in the air as they sort through the whole thing. Another interesting angle is it sounds like most of the colleges will be going back Saturday since Sunday isn't a "selection" match and it counts against their NCAA dates. So there may be a significant decrease in athletes Sunday.

But lets wait a wait a day or two and I'm sure it will get updated. Like Joel said they are all working hard to wrap their heads around this event.

[jhmartin]

I heard last night that competitions and some of the coaches have been getting pushback from athletes on this.
My view is that if they are going to (in essence randomly) pair the shooters as per their rank in a completely different event, that they should refund $60 for those that do not participate in a bogus team event.

The shooters have basically had to give up an Olympic medaled event (prone for the rifle shooters) and our National Federation had darn well better start treating this new mixed team item as a separate and trainable event. WE should be encouraging teams ... real teams to train for this event as teams. Not treat it as a "fun," extra event.

[dand]

Joel,
This is not a mixed team qualification match. This is lining up boy-girl and firing 40 shots individually. At the end USAS form teams for a mock mixed team final.
Since the selection portion of the competition is complete it's a meaningless day. They could at least make it more fun for the shooters IMO. There has been a lot of talk on this site about guys vs gals. Let each sex pick their own teams or some may even choose to form a mixed team and the top five teams shoot the final. It would be more fun, all can play and it is just as close to following the ISSF rules as their plans.
I don't know why they never ask me about these things ;)

[jhmartin]

My emphasis added:

This is not a mixed team qualification match.
This is lining up boy-girl and firing 40 shots individually. At the end USAS form teams for a mock mixed team final.
Since the selection portion of the competition is complete it's a meaningless day.

Bingo. That's 1/3 of the $180 entry fee.
I think when they see a comment from me in their email they are going "Na Na Na Na Na I can't hear you!!!"