.32 caliber, lead as opposed to jacketed, and Glocks

[wesleytilson]

.32 caliber, lead as opposed to jacketed, and competing with a Glock.

It seems to me that a .32 would be about as easy as a .22 to shoot.

Where does one get a .32 barrel to switch into an already owned gun?

Given .32 caliber, Where does one order the ammo from?
I'm not ready for reloading, yet.

Since I already have a Glock 34 9mm and a Glock 41 .45acp, are either or both of these allowed or used in Bullseye competitions. If not then I will start saving again. For .22 I have an S&W victory.:-)

Finally, I have read that lead round nosed projectiles are prefered in the .22. The Eley brand touted as a brand used by Olympic shooters is lead round nosed.

Why should lead be chosen over jacketed? Does anyone shoot lead projectiles in the mid-size guns such as .32, .38, or 9mm? What about in the .45acp?

I just need one or two leads on these points.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[Rover]

Retired and not ready for reloading? Silly boy!

[Christopher Miceli]

jacked bullets are more accurate then lead any given day of the week, guess it has to do with constancy .
The lead bullets offer cheaper prices and less torque on the shooter, so felt recoil is less.
If you get bored try and slug a barrel with a lead bullet and do the same with a jacked bullet.
Lead can often be shot accurately at lower powder charges as well.
My 32 recoils less than a 22win mag, Only a few 32s are worthy of bullseye. Be it a 32 s&w or 32acp.
For 32acp ammo Hornady factory 60gn jhp (very spendy) is out there plus a few other brands
For 32 S&W i've seen fiocchi and lapua.

For 22lr 40gn lead is pretty much the go to be it the round nose or that button nose eley makes. I 've shot next a local High master who has cleaned some slow fire targets with the copper washed 36grain 22lr. A majority of the time its the Archers skill and no the arrow.

Also i believe ISSF requires lead bullets only and nothing larger then a 38 special.

[oldcaster]

I don't for a moment think that jacketed is more accurate in a pistol than lead. I suggest you read all about the Pardini 32 ACP.

You may shoot any 22 pistol and the Smith victory would not be most peoples first choice but it will work OK

Either of your Glocks are allowed in Bullseye but would not be the first choice by anyone. Since you already have them I don't see why you should not use them until you are sure you want to shoot this discipline and then based on the people around you, choose another gun. Anything over 32 caliber is legal in the centerfire matches. If you shoot the third leg of a 2700 match, it must be .45 caliber. Most people shoot some kind of 1911 in 45 caliber for both centerfire and the 45 match. There are lead commercial rounds available but if you want to shoot bullseye, you need to start reloading. It should be easy to find someone in the discipline to help you to get the right equipment and to show you what to do.

Don't think that you need some sort of expensive match ammo to shoot bullseye matches with your 22. I would prefer something that is standard velocity if it will operate your gun. Some of the best for the price would be Aguila SE or Armscor standard velocity. The Aguila has less recoil than the Armscor and will probably work better in a gun that needs more kick to operate it. If the Armscor doesn't kick enough, the next option is Blazer. If this doesn't work you will have to go to full velocity ammo and it does not have to be copper plated but should be a 40 grain bullet to get the most kick possible. The only reason to not use the standard velocity bullets is if they are not reliable in the gun you are using.

[Christopher Miceli]

Show me the best lead test target and I'll show you a jacketed target with better results for any pistol caliber.

I tend to shoot more lead than jacketed in 45. But my 32 does under an inch with factory hornady

[wesleytilson]

[quote="oldcaster"]I don't for a moment think that jacketed is more accurate in a pistol than lead. I suggest you read all about the Pardini 32 ACP.
You may shoot any 22 pistol and the Smith victory would not be most peoples first choice but it will work OK
Either of your Glocks are allowed in Bullseye but would not be the first choice by anyone. /quote]

I am using compensators and red dots on the Glocks and a one inch longer than stock ported barrel on the S&W. Isn't there an "Open Class" cohort that I would be a member of?

That Pardini .32acp is over a thousand bucks. I would buy a CMP M1 Garand with those bucks.:-)



S&W-Victory-Customised .22 with red dot and ported barrel


Glock-34 9mm with red dot and compensator


Glock-41 .45acp with red dot and compensator

[oldcaster]

The only special class I know of is for age and any decent centerfire bullseye gun will be a thousand or more.

[wesleytilson]

The only special class I know of is for age and any decent centerfire bullseye gun will be a thousand or more.

So, I will be able to compete using these three pistols?

[oldcaster]

Yes and you can still have fun. You will be shooting against yourself anyway and the thrill is increasing your own score each week. Your scores will not be as good as if you had all the best equipment but that shouldn't matter. If you are shooting outdoors at 50 yards the accuracy of your Glocks will be the biggest hindrance but your 22 will be as good as any as far as accuracy goes. The Glocks aren't that bad but just not as good. Trigger quality is the next problem and the Smith and Glocks fall behind in this category. When you become friends with others that have guns specifically designed for bullseye ask to shoot them and you will notice the difference in the trigger. Since you are used to the guns you already have, you might shoot them better at first even though the other guns are designed for the discipline.

[Christopher Miceli]

Oldcaster is right, shoot what you got and have fun + learn the game. If you decide its for you, you can gradually upgrade to equipment that is more fitting the the discipline.

[wesleytilson]

oldcaster, "Yes and you can still have fun. You will be shooting against yourself anyway and the thrill is increasing your own score each week. "

Christopher Miceli. "Oldcaster is right, shoot what you got and have fun + learn the game. If you decide its for you, you can gradually upgrade to equipment that is more fitting the discipline."

Thanks. Now to find the instructions for NRA Gallery matches. :-)

[SlartyBartFast]

The only reason to not use the standard velocity bullets is if they are not reliable in the gun you are using.

CCI Standard Velocity LRN seems to fire perfectly fine out of my S&W SW22 Victory.
Have shot CCI minimag, CCI Competition, SKPlus, Federal ultra match, federal match (?), and a couple others.

Put CCI Subsonic 40g HP through it last time at the club. My scores still hovered around my averages, and I was tired and not focusing well. No reliability issues. Only issue I noticed is there's an odd smell about those cartridges.

The only ammunition that I've tried that the gun was unreliable with was Sellier&Bellot SV lrn. Worked perfectly through 150 of them, then refused to get 5 in a row out. FTE and stove pipes. Untill the problems, loved the ammo. Was improving my score and recoil was tiny. The slower velocity combined with the thick waxy lubricant was probably the problem.

What reliability issues would you expect me to see if I keep using the CCI SV or CCI Subsonic?

[oldcaster]

Every individual gun seems to be an entity to itself but certain types can typically have problems with the same ammo. I doubt if you will have any problems with the CCI ammo but I guarantee some people have. Accuracy in any of these guns are pretty good with just about any ammo to the point that it isn't necessary to worry about which is the best. Reliability is the only real problem with the 22's. Something of note is that just because one round has more recoil than the other doesn't mean that it is faster necessarily. CCI SV is not as fast as Aguila SV but has more recoil which I am pretty sure is because of one using a fast powder and the other slow. As an average I think Aguila will cause more alibis than the CCI but again that is no guarantee and is probably due to the sharper recoil making guns work better. I think you should use whatever ammo you can get when you want it as long as it is reliable, leaning to the least recoil you can get away with.

[SlartyBartFast]

I think you should use whatever ammo you can get when you want it as long as it is reliable, leaning to the least recoil you can get away with.

Thanks for your reply. Seems I read past a few earlier posts and missed the point made in your first post and confused the next one with recommending against SV.

Good advice though for anyone. Try whatever is available locally and easily and if it's reliable, use it.
Might be just my shooting skill that's not too hot. But none of the more expensive ammo has given me any indication of being better to the point of justifying the extra cost.

As my 22lr only target focussed gun club is being shut down by the city, evicting us and leaving the club homelessawy after 56years, I might be looking for a couple centerfire pistols and try being the odd man out doing bullseye at the next closest club to me.

But like the OP, I really don't want to get into reloading. Glocks won't be my choice, but like the OP I'll be looking for something budget but decent. Threads like this are a great source of information and ideas.

[Christopher Miceli]

You need accurate gear/ammo to be competitive in precision shooting. I gained an average of 50 points a 2700 going from a 3" gun to a 2" gun at 50 yards. If I was to spend the extra $ on tenex it would shrink my 22 group to .42 from .86... probably 1-4 points additional gained.

[zanemoseley]

The s&w will probably serve you better than the glocks but you have all you need to compete. You'll want a 1911 chambered in 45 soon along with reloading equipment. Lead is preferred until you get really good, jacketed needs to be run hotter than lead to maintain accuracy so you'll likely lose more points flinching due to the added recoil than you gain with the accuracy, not to mention jacketed bullets cost nearly double that of lead bullets.

[oldcaster]

I bought a Les Baer wad gun back in the early 90's (best I can remember the time) and tested with all kinds of ammo and settled on the Saeco 069 with either 5.4 grains of Power Pistol powder for 50 yards or 4.4 grains at 25. It tested 2 inches 5 shot groups out of a Ransom rest at 50 but the 5.4 load is more powerful than I would like. After extensive testing I finally wound up using 3.6 of Clays and I use it both at 50 and 25. It will also do the 2 inches at 50 yards. With these loads it was imperative to keep the alloy fairly soft (around 8 - 9 BHN and I used both Lars 2500 and Alox 50/50. Anything other will also work as long as it is soft, bearing in mind that soft lube is a pain because it clogs and gets on the base of bullets so you have to wipe it off. I did try the Saeco 068 bevel base bullet and feel that it is just a tiny bit worse than the flat base 069 but I don't know that it was enough to make a big deal about plus in a different gun it might be the opposite. If you are going to lube a bevel base bullet with anything but a Star luber where the bullet is pushed all the way through, lube getting on the base is a headache. I did try quite a bit of harder alloy bullets and some hard lube and found that everything has to be exactly right in regards to bullet size compared to barrel and was more problem than it was worth. With fast bullets hard lube might work but slow needs soft. This was done over several years and probably somewhere around 3-4 thousand bullets. If you just plain are not going to get into casting, I would whole heartedly recommend either the Magnus or the Zero swaged 200 grain bullet.

I used quite a few different molds some at 185 grain and most at 200. Any of them shaped similar to the 069 Saeco did better than the others. A Saeco 185 (I think 131) mold was very poor along with a Lyman truncated (don't remember the number) and a Lyman 200 that looked similar to the 069 was fairly good but harder to mold a perfect bullet and not worth going cheaper.

The only thing I have done to the Les Baer after all these years is replace the barrel bushing. It needs to be reblued again because it is getting pretty shiny.

[Dipnet]

Sleepless in Gainesville and waiting for Irma. Tired and sore from cutting down and cutting up a large red oak and a hickory; worrying about other trees...

At a recent regional match, I was admiring a shooter's Mountain Competition 45 when he remarked, "Pick it up. Nice isn't it. Treat yourself. We are alive for the briefest moments and dead for so very long." Sage advice.

I have a buddy who owns a ton of guns but none of them are especially accurate, making them less desirable; why bother?. All the pricey guns I own are accurate, and except my pre-retirement Pardini, all were bought on installments allowed by dealer or manufacturer, and all were well worth the wait.

Since the BE game is all about precision shooting, buy accurate pistols. I have never (ever) seen anyone shooting a Glock at a BE match (there is a reason for this, regardless how they are ginned-up). Warning, uncasing your Glocks may evoke seasoned "bullseye" humor. I've never shot an S&W Victory so I can't comment on that pistol, but a lot of people shoot Ruger Mark series, which the Victory was intended to compete with. I think Oldcaster's advice is good; shoot your guns until you determine whether you've got the BE bug, and Rover's right too (!), reloading is the only way to go for centerfire calibers (you get to control everything). cheers, dipnet

[Rover]

"Only accurate rifles (guns) are interesting." Warren Page

Back when there was the .22 shortage, I was shooting whatever crap ammo I could find (old, Hi-Speed, moldy, whatever). I was amazed how well it did in a good gun.

[Dipnet]

Rover,
I absolutely agree: accuracy is everything. A pistol that shoots 2 inch groups at 15 yards is not even close to being interesting. I find it telling that Nighthawk and Wilson test their pistols at 15 yards. That is practically shameful for so called custom guns. I think 'MOA' for pistols should be 1" at 25 yards and 2" at 50. The whole point of any rifle is to be able to shoot whatever in the eye at minimally a 100 yards, right? I get what drives bench rest shooters, but good shooting skills that interest me are mastering offhand. I've been doing BE for ~7 years and now shoot better one handed than with two, especially with iron sights. cheers, dipnet