Getting rid of prone 8 ring wobble-how tight hold w/forehand

[OrlandoProneXgun]

Getting rid of prone 8 ring wobble
I use a 36x scope, so I can see the wobble. I can reduce the wobble by squeezing the rifle stock via the forehand. May I ask others, do you just let the rifle seat in your forehand or do hold it firmly (And how firmly, a strong handshake, etc)?

[salar600]

let the rifle seat in your forehand and relaxe, problem is somewhere else.

[bugman1955]

I would use a lower power scope. Maybe 20 or 25 power. Do you experience this with irons also?

[Tim S]

As above, the left hand (right landed-shooter) is just a platform on which the rifle sits. Finger pressure isn't consistent, so no pressure is best. A wobbly hold could be caused by incorrect sling and handstop adjustment, a stock that's too large/too small, jacket that doesn't fit, and quite a few other things.

If the position is wobbly, adding inconsistent muscular tension into the mix may make things worse.

[patriot]

Also make certain you are focused on the point of aim on the target and not the crosshairs; opposite of irons.

Mark

[OldFart]

Go back to the basics and build up from there. Scope tight on rifle. Elbow directly under the sling. The sling takes ALL the weight. If not tighten the sling. Confirm your natural point of aim. Close your eyes and relax. Open your eyes, be honest, are you perfectly lined up left to right. If not, move your body around your non-trigger elbow. If you are real close, you can cheat a bit with movement of your trigger elbow. Repeat until UR perfectly aligned. Check NPA for vertical. Adjust your sling for larger movements. For fine you can move your non-trigger elbow up or back. Get the NPA so that you are perfectly lined up when you are almost completely exhaled. At least I find that more repeatable. Relax, relax, relax. Watch the point of aim move with your breath. It should be straight vertical. When centered, pause your breath and watch the sights just sit on the dot. If not, you are using your muscles somewhere to steer the rifle, go back to top and repeat.

[OrlandoProneXgun]

Thanks all for the advise. Its been hard to get into this sport at such an old age, 60. My eyes aren't good enough now for iron sights. Can only hold rifle for 5 minutes before having to put it down. Though, i did shot my 1st 200/200 conventional at 100 yards! (Though i think that it is easier than 50 yards since only have to move between 2 bulls). So i know I can do it right. Will try some of your ideas so i can repeat & get rid of the wobble.

[gwsb]

There is nothing more important in prone smallbore shooting than the total relaxation of virtually every muscle in the body. Obviously the trigger finger needs to have tension in it but every thing else should be totally relaxed and (listen carefully, this part is important) you should mentally tell yourself to relax before every shot.
I disagree with the advise of using a lower powered scope . It is not the scope that is making the rifle wobble. It is your position. Tighten the sling, make the butt tighter in the shoulder and relax. A test is to get on the target, close your eyes, and relax. If the point of aim changes you have a position problem. Also ask around, especially the best shooters on the line. Almost anybody would be willing to help.
Lastly 60 is not too old if the joints work and the eyes if you are shooting iron sights. I have seen many great scores and championships won by shooters over 60.

Good Luck

[Anschutz]

Thanks all for the advise. Its been hard to get into this sport at such an old age, 60. My eyes aren't good enough now for iron sights. Can only hold rifle for 5 minutes before having to put it down. Though, i did shot my 1st 200/200 conventional at 100 yards! (Though i think that it is easier than 50 yards since only have to move between 2 bulls). So i know I can do it right. Will try some of your ideas so i can repeat & get rid of the wobble.

Art Neergaard @ ShootingSight LLC can give you some good info on shooting irons at older age. I'm 59, and use Art's Lens Test Kit to get a lens made ALWAYS immediately AFTER an eye exam — if needed for any changes. Unless you have medical vision issues, you may want to consider Art's recommendations. HOWEVER, it really depends on what you want to accomplish and what you'll do to that end. Have met many older shooters that only want to do scope as it's pretty neat. I too had a T36, nothing wrong with 36 power, I just wanted a Leopold, and only a crosshair so dropped to a new 8.5-20X and keep it at 20X. Got a totally new stock and only shooting scope right now and will do irons most likely next spring when can travel more. You're new and cleaned at 100 yards, so you're off to a good start. Figure out what you want to do and enjoy.

[patriot]

For older shooters it usually works out better to learn your position shooting scope, then move to irons. I've seen experienced shooters send older folks down the irons first path and they get frustrated. For juniors its best to start with irons. 60, if your eyes are healthy, is not too old for irons if you use the technology - shooting glasses, longer sight radius, magnification, adjustable iris, good coach... I have Art's test kit and have loaned it out more times than I can count. Shooting lens aren't expensive so I have the next correction in the kit. Once or twice a year I rotate my lens to check the astigmatism. It can make a big difference. My ophthalmologist once said, "you shooters are abnormal, humans can't detect a 15 degree shift. :-)

Mark

[patriot]

I disagree with the advise of using a lower powered scope . It is not the scope that is making the rifle wobble. It is your position.
Good Luck

Its not always position, sometimes its mental, physiological, or technique. Best position in the world won't help if you are out of shape, ate a big meal, are stressed, or focus on the cross-hairs.

Mark

[bugman1955]

I disagree with the statement made earlier that the trigger finger needs to have tension in it. The finger should be relaxed as other parts of the body. Holding the grip too tightly or having to reach for the trigger in which case you move the the grip forward, can cause tension in the finger.

[nglitz]

I disagree with the statement made earlier that the trigger finger needs to have tension in it. The finger should be relaxed as other parts of the body. Holding the grip too tightly or having to reach for the trigger in which case you move the the grip forward, can cause tension in the finger.

The whole point of lying prone with the rifle is to shoot it. That requires pulling the trigger. Hard to do that with the trigger finger relaxed.

[Tim S]

The whole point of lying prone with the rifle is to shoot it. That requires pulling the trigger. Hard to do that with the trigger finger relaxed.

But the finger shouldn't be tense because the reach to the trigger is too long or too short. Relaxed until you start to press the trigger is a better description.

[patriot]

But the finger shouldn't be tense because the reach to the trigger is too long or too short. Relaxed until you start to press the trigger is a better description.

I've experimented with Ballard set triggers and the Anschutz configured so light that mentally they become difficult to break. I prefer holding a little bit of tension before the break, which then becomes a reflex when my eye detects the correct sight picture. It seems more consistent to increase pressure than to start from none.

Mark

[Tim S]

Mark,

You run a single stage on the Anschutz?

I feel that when my hand is too relaxed it's difficult to keep consistent. I try to hold with enough pressure to keep everything together, but without inducing any tremor. However I like my trigger finger to be relaxed. Tension, for me at least, leads to firing too early. That's with a light single stage trigger.

I'm still surprised by the variation between shooters, and suspect I always will be.

[patriot]

Have run both in prone; prefer single stage for scope and double for irons. At 35x seeing even a slight movement of the crosshairs during first stage take up when the hold is dead steady is distracting; feels like breaking the trigger twice. For irons its not noticeable; just increase pressure. The Anschutz trigger is very flexible. For a while I experimented with a 1 oz single stage setup with a fare amount of travel, next to impossible to anticipate but couldn't achieve the subconscious break when the eye sees it's sight picture. Love it in offhand when you are in the zone and get that surprise break; always a 10. Offhand / Silhouette are mostly double action or set triggers. Service rifle is obviously double.

I feel that when my hand is too relaxed it's difficult to keep consistent. I try to hold with enough pressure to keep everything together, but without inducing any tremor.

Zero pressure for some seems to cause going after it or fear of pulling the trigger. I learned this the hard way in offhand. Increasing grip pressure always felt like adding weight to a trigger; prefer light and consistent. Finding the right grip pressure in Bullseye Pistol is critical and every pistol seems to have a different preference.

[GaryD]

Thanks all for the advise. Its been hard to get into this sport at such an old age, 60. My eyes aren't good enough now for iron sights. Can only hold rifle for 5 minutes before having to put it down. Though, i did shot my 1st 200/200 conventional at 100 yards! (Though i think that it is easier than 50 yards since only have to move between 2 bulls). So i know I can do it right. Will try some of your ideas so i can repeat & get rid of the wobble.

Don't let your age put you off, I started back prone shooting after giving it up for 25 years at the age of 64.

I could only support the rifle for 5 shots before putting the rifle down as my left hand was killing me, now I can hold the position for about 35 rounds.
I am now 71, still using iron sights but with a lens.

So never say never, keep practising and you will get there.