Sporters/precision

[Jwhelan939@aol.com]

Evening,
I am a pistol shooter that would like to get into rifle shooting. I compete in bullseye and enjoy shooting 10m AP. I have zero competition rifle background.

I should say that I have no intention of publicly competing, however, I am very competitive with myself. I want to be able to shoot as best I can and improve as I go. I would love one of the higher end precision rifles but with the prices, it is just not in the cards. I can handle 600-700, but no more. I prefer pcp. I already have pumps and scuba tanks for my lp10, so that is not an issue.

I keep seeing "sporters rifles," such as the challenger and the edge. Are these rifles only for children? Everything posting about them seems to be discussing juniors. I am 5'11'' and 215lbs, far from a junior. If I get a challenger, will I be able to see improvements and really be competitive? When I started shooting my lp10 I averaged 520. A year later and I am normally between 550-560. I would like to do the same with a decent rifle. Are these rifles full size? Or built for little guys? Are they actual competitive rifles? Or will my Gamo hornet be as accurate (I hope that is a sarcastic comment.)

All your thoughts, advice, and ideas are much appreciated. Thank you so much for your time.

[jenrick]

Sporters can be just as accurate as a precision rifle when benched or viced. They just don't tend to be as ergonomic. Sporter is shot basically in street clothes (you can wear two loose sweatshirts in place of a jacket. You are allowed a glove, and web sling or similar for kneeling and prone. Additionally there are mandatory limits on trigger pull weight, stock adjustments etc.

Even with all that the national records for sporter are (20 shot matches - integer scoring):

3 position 578 – 31x
Prone 200 – 19x
Standing 192
Kneeling 197 – 14

This is on regulation ISSF 10m air rifle targets. For most of us, we're going to be the limiting factor rather than the gun. Now if you are planning on using a sporter in the precision game (jacket, pants, etc) you'll be at a bit of a disadvantage due to the better ergonomics and triggers on the precision rifles.

There are different sized sporters out there, but the newer crop are starting to be more adjustable to fit more shooters. 5'11" and 215lbs isn't out of line for a HS senior. The Challenger seems to fit a lot of body types from what I've seen so it would probably work just fine for you.

I know you said you weren't really interested in SSP or springers, but they can be a heck of a deal for a precision rifle. I picked up a LGM2 off this board for a bit under $700. Yes it's a SSP, but that model also won a gold medal in the '96 Olympics. The major advantage the PCP's have is the plethora of anatomical stocks they have available. A SSP really isn't going to be any less accurate then a modern PCP, they are just less ergonomic

-Jenrick

[Jwhelan939@aol.com]

Thank you for taking the time to respond. That is very helpful. I will look into the ssp. I will be shooting in regular clothes anyway. So maybe a sporter is what I want.

[jenrick]

One thing I forgot to mention. If you're going to be shooting from prone or kneeling, PCP's do make life easier as you don't have to break position for each shot. However if you're not competing, I find a SSP or springer to be an outstanding way to practice building position. You are forced to come out of position after each shot, so you can make yourself work on building your positions correctly. Instead of maybe getting a rep of position building every 10-20 shots (or more), you can do it after every shot. Some people find it annoying, I find it tremendously valuable as a teaching tool.

-Jenrick

[pcw]

I have a Challenger that I use for biathlon practice and as such I am not bound by any competition requirements. I have heavily modified my Challenger to be as much like my biathlon rifle as possible. The Challenger is very accurate and I have had no problems with it. It is not a precision rifle however. The butt plate sucks, the cheek piece is marginal, I have yet to find something that would work as a barrel weight. The new sights should be better. The trigger can be modified and improved significantly, but it is the Challengers weakest link. I have the trigger weight where I like it, but it is still not as crisp as I like. I think what bothers me the most is the over travel. The modifications I've made (replacing butt plate, cheek piece, adding putty to the grip and a number of other things) have cost me a couple hundred bucks, so I have about half the cost of a used pcp (1000 to 1600$) into the Challenger. Would I do it again? There is something about using a nicely made piece of equipment vs something hacked together that might sway me to buy a nice pcp, but the practical part of me wins out when I realize that the Challenger does everything I need it to and allowed me to test the waters at a much lower price point.

[sillymike]

Had the chance to play with the Edge, I thought it was pretty nice. Very light. And got really good shot count for such a small cylinder.
- It would make a lot of sens since you're already equipped for PCP.

Another nice/somewhat inexpensive target airgun is the Daisy 853.

And before I forget, my be worth your while to join a CMP affiliated club.
http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/air-rifles/

[kilowhiskey]

Coming from an LP-10, you may not be pleased with the feel of a sporter rifle trigger. They can be made better.... but will not feel like a $2000 pistol trigger.
An older wooden stocked FWB C60, P70, Anschutz 2002, Walther PCP or side-cocker like a FWB - 602 can give you a very, very nice trigger for not much more than a sporter if you are patient in your search-and sights better than the Gamo as a bonus.

[jdomangue]

If you are planning to compete in any NRA sporter class air rifle matches there is a list of the rifles that can be used. (See NRA Air Rifle Rule 4.2.1).

Of the approved sporter air rifles, the one we have found fits adults the best is the Crosman Challenger. It is certainly not the same feel as an Anschutz or FWB but then again it is also not in the same price range.

[pdeal]

My thinking follows Kilowhisky's. I have mostly been involved with precision air in my lift and only tried the sporters as an attempt to find a low cost air rifle for entry level shooters. The quality difference between the sporters and say a fwb, anschutz, walther, etc precision air rifle is very significant. If you are accustomed to a LP-10 and since you already have compressed air I suggest watching for a fwb p70, or ans 2002. They are everywhere, very high quality, very reliable, and very fun to shoot.

[GaryN]

My thoughts on this, as I am in a similar boat.
I am primarily an AP shooter, shooting a Walther CPM1.
I shoot AR when I want a break from AP.

But I did NOT want to spend the $$$ on a precision AR kit; jacket, pants + boots. Especially with an unstable waistline :-(
I ended up doing both sportser and precision.

- I have a Daisy 953 and 853 with the Bob Johnson trigger mod. I use the x53 rifes for casual target shooting. As others have said, in no way can the trigger compare with a tier 1 match trigger. I think the x53 rifles may be too small for you. Without spacers, it has a 12" LoP. I'm 5'4" with a 12" LoP and it fits me fine, without spacers. The current Crossman Challenger is likely a better fir for you.
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Crosman_C ... /1925/3934
The CMP is selling used/refurbished Daisy 853s for $105. The 853 is a SSP rifle.
http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales ... ir-rifles/

- I have a FWB P70-jr (CA) and FWB 300 (spring) that I shoot for precision, and when I get serious about my AR score.
I use a Home Depot back belt to support my lower back when I shoot these rifles (especially the heavier FWB-300), and a pair of shoes with FLAT soles. And that is it for my shooting outfit special gear, IOW CHEAP.
$600-700 would buy a used SSP or CO2 tier 1 rifle (FWB, Anschutz, Walther, Styer). If you are REALLY lucky, you might find an older CA rifle, like the Anschutz 2002CA.
If you join a CMP affilitated club, there is the Hammerli AR-20 from the CMP for $840.
http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales ... ir-rifles/
With you shooting a tier 1 AP, for precision, I would be hessitant to go down to the tier 2 rifle. You may not be happy with the trigger. Even my OLD FWB300 spring rifle has a better match trigger than the tier 2 rifles. And to me, the trigger makes a big difference.

That said, the other options are tier 2 and tier 3 rifles (that I know of), which generally for home use may be just fine.
- TAU-200, co2
- Air Arms T200. Be careful that you don't get the short LoP stock.
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Air_Arms_ ... /2622/5186
- Air Force Edge. Though I have read mixed reviews on this rifle. This is a sportster rifle with reportedly the best sights of all the sportsters. According to the specs, the LoP will go out to 17 inches!
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/AirForce_ ... /1813/3682
- Beaman AR2078B, co2. This is a tier 3 rifle that has yet to prove itself. I am not impressed by the specs. And you CANNOT use riser blocks under the sights, because of how the front sight is constructed.
http://www.archerairguns.com/AR2078B-Ch ... r2078b.htm

Personally, I would go with a used tier 1 rifle over any of the tier 2 or 3 rifles.

gud luk