Daisy 499b Program Startup - ideas needed

[Texdance]

My friend wants to start a BB gun program for his Cub Scouts, using the Daisy 499b. We think our gun club will buy 5 BB guns. He has a place to shoot, and is committed to this for at least several years, then the equipment will revert to the gun club. I will be a silent assistant, having two years experience in coaching 4H three position while keeping a group of 25 various brand 22s from newer Anschutz 64 to older Cadets in top condition.

I searched here and read scores of posts about the Daisy 499 and discovered to my surprise that experienced coaches talk about their need for many extra rifles and parts to keep a program in working 499s. Plus someone must assume the task of BB gunsmith. Is this the sense of the group - we will need at least a couple extra 499s, many spare parts, and at least an amateur BB gunsmith to keep the kids in working rifles?

If the 499 is hard to keep shooting, much less shooting straight, I'd like to know if the Daisy 753-853-877 series would fit these small shooters; I know the pumps are too hard to operate for most kids this age. I think CO2 is a good choice; I shoot an older CO2 Daisy that performs flawlessly, and the temperature here in shooting season is such that we would have no CO2 problems. The Champion Choice T200 is small and would fit the kids, but at $525 each it is too costly.

Any advice is welcome.

[coaching]

Do a search for Timber Beasts club in Forest Grove, OR and get info on how to contact them for help. They have had a BB-gun program for many years and I am sure they can help with any questions. The coaches took my coaching course some years ago. Don in Oregon

[metalsmith]

I am with a County 4-H shooting sports program that was chartered in 1972. We have 40 499's of various ages. They all still work well, although we did replace many barrels due to wear. They used to pick BB's off the floor and reuse them. The dirt and grit is tough on barrels. The most necessary gunsmithing is shortening stocks to fit the shooters. We keep an assortment of spare stocks cut to various lengths to swap as needed. As kids grow, add weight in the stocks. You can go to 6 pounds.

There was a time several years ago Daisy had problems with very low velocitys from the factory. New guns seem fine now. Much of the gunsmithing being done is to "improve" the out of the box performance. Extra barrels to find the tightest one. Triggers to tune and swap out, etc. Once you have found a tight barrel, use it to sort BBs for matches.

It comes down to how much time you or a parent is willing to spend to be competitive in BB gun.

Kevin

[jdomangue]

In your post, you don't state your goals for this BB club. If you are planning to teach basic marksmanship to your Cub Scouts then an out of the box Daisy 499 will be fine. If you are talking about starting a competitive BB shooting team that requires a bit more work.

Our 4-H club started shooting BB about 5 years ago. The club owns 10 Daisy 499s. We do not do much maintenance on our club guns. We sight them in once a year before field day (the day when kids in the parish come out and try shooting sports). Then they are generally shot by kids who don't plan to compete. If they start giving us problems we work on them.

All of our competitive shooters own at least 1 Daisy 499. One of our dads has taken on the job of gunsmith for these guns. He weights the stocks, de-burrs and polishes the internals and does general maintenance on them when needed (usually before a big competition). They aren't that hard to take apart. There is a video online that shows you how to take them down and reassemble them.

All of the parts for the 499 are available from Daisy and they are not expensive. As mentioned in an earlier post, we have had to change the barrel out on a couple of gun but Daisy sells the barrel assemblies with the abutment already installed.

[Texdance]

It's more fun if the projectile goes where its aimed, mostly, whether shooting BB or high power.

Whether any of this small group of kids get the competitive bug is immaterial to the program. Doubtful any of this group will go beyond trying to hit somewhere in the bull.

As I suspected, replies show the need for a smith of sorts for these BB guns. Bummer. There is a dearth of such people available. It could be a show stopper.

Do the springs still fall out of the triggers as prior posts suggest?

[shawn706]

It's more fun if the projectile goes where its aimed, mostly, whether shooting BB or high power.

Whether any of this small group of kids get the competitive bug is immaterial to the program. Doubtful any of this group will go beyond trying to hit somewhere in the bull.

As I suspected, replies show the need for a smith of sorts for these BB guns. Bummer. There is a dearth of such people available. It could be a show stopper.

Do the springs still fall out of the triggers as prior posts suggest?

The trigger springs have been improved. I've not had one fall out of a new trigger assembly. I'm not a particularly handy person but I do almost all our smith work for my team. I learned from this. http://www.georgia4h.org/safe/disciplin ... _small.ppt

I don't use a plunger fork though, I use a brass cleaning rod and it to works fine. The hardest thing to do is to remove and reinstall the abutment plug, but the only time you'll need to do that is if it throws a magnet, and that rarely happens unless you do a lot of dry firing.

[jdomangue]

If you do decide to go forward with the program. It sounds like the 499 would certainly meet your needs. They would certainly be better for a young beginner than an air rifle. Air rifles are more expensive and heavier.

We have not had any trouble with springs falling out. We have also seen some improvements in construction since Gamo bought Daisy last year. For instance, the crimping on the abutment is better and sponge rings on the plungers to help keep them oiled.

If you are looking for funding, check out the Friends of the NRA grant.

[Texdance]

Thanks, everyone, for your help and ideas. I think with your help and my prior searches I have the basics of using the Daisy 499b for youth group shooting. I believe at least one adult for the new BB gun group needs to be willing and able to at least swap parts from time to time on the 499 air rifles. Since that parts swapper person is not me, I'll leave it to the organizer to solve the issue, or not.

[trlrider]

There are numerous youth groups, and even all age groups around the nation using the 499B rifles.
For their intended distance which is 5 meters, they are usually more accurate than most shooters can muster.
I have seen competitions where youth and adults are putting rounds in the 10x nearly every time in supported positions.

My son at age 12 scores very well with his 499B.
If they are kept clean with quality BB's, they will outshoot the shooter! Not sure where many have commented they are not accurate.
Two clubs we shoot with have 499 and 499B's that are 12 to 15 years old, and other than routine maintenance and the occasional worn out barrel, are trouble free!
We have tested much higher priced BB specific guns for 5 meter shooting, and have yet to beat the 499B!

Good Luck with your program!

Louis

[rfwhatley]

There are numerous youth groups, and even all age groups around the nation using the 499B rifles.
For their intended distance which is 5 meters, they are usually more accurate than most shooters can muster.
I have seen competitions where youth and adults are putting rounds in the 10x nearly every time in supported positions.

• In the early 2000's, my son used a 499 to shoot a 92 in Standing during a 4H competition. Obviously he won high shooter in Standing that day. I still have that target posted on my wall.

• Hopefully the attached notes on tuning the 499 will help someone. I'm no expert on the 499, but I was able to collect these during my time on the 4H team.

[Barry]

Just FYI kids that age are not going to do well with the CZ T200 or 10 meters.

The BB gun is the right gun for that age.

[smmhusm]

If you want to shoot the Daisy Nationals, you have to shoot the 499: https://www.daisy.com/daisy-nationals