Alternatives apart from eliminating FP and Prone

[Olympic Dreamer]

I've browsed the petitions and came across 2 suggestions:

For Pistol,
"My suggestion to save pistol shooting this time and get as many as possible satisfy is the following:
Men disciplins. Free Pistol and Rapide Fire Pistol.
Ladies disciplins. Sport Pistol and Air Pistol.
Mixed; Air Pistol 40 or 60 shots Final 4 teams shooting every other shot each.
Now we get five disciplins Pistol Shooting and have shared them in a fair way.
Yours
Ragnar Skanåker"

Ragnar Skanåker's idea is good considering that you don't have to purchase FP and training for women (if that's a concern).

For Rifle,
"Either we change prone to a mixed event or we have a suggestion inspired by Ragnar Skanåker.
Men's Discipline: 3p, Prone
Women's Discipline: 3p, Air Rifle
Mixed Event: Air Rifle 40 or 60 shots
Now we get five disciplines for Rifle and shared them in a fair way."

Since Mixed Air Rifle event in the YOG was so successful according to ISSF might as well change the current one to a mixed event (They're going ahead with a mixed AR event anyway....).

For both ideas, no additional equipment and training is required, no disciplines get eliminated and we can have gender equality and more female participation. Please sign the petition, SHARE IT and spam ISSF with emails of disapproval.

We still need more signatures!

Rifle Petition: https://www.change.org/p/international- ... ic-program
Pistol Petition: https://www.change.org/p/international- ... on=minibar

[hundert]

no air pistol for men?... get out of here

also, mixed events are super gay to watch. It's nice to have them, but why have them in Olympics?
I wish ISSF would create more events, different scoring systems, teams, mixed teams, men+women events, to see how it goes.

Just allow women to compete in free, problem solved. Women have the same number of events that way, man hating liberals are happy, that homo Thomas Bach is happy, everybody happy...

[Olympic Dreamer]

no air pistol for men?... get out of here

also, mixed events are super gay to watch. It's nice to have them, but why have them in Olympics?
I wish ISSF would create more events, different scoring systems, teams, mixed teams, men+women events, to see how it goes.

Just allow women to compete in free, problem solved. Women have the same number of events that way, man hating liberals are happy, that homo Thomas Bach is happy, everybody happy...

Men will shoot AP in mixed event with women.

I also wish that prone and FP are available to women but increasing the number of events is also out of the question due to quota limitations. The next best option is to change prone and FP to a mixed team event and that was the initial suggestions by the ad-hoc committee and obviously it did not went through. They're coming out with vague reasons not to have them. With this suggestion, let's see if they've got anything to say.

[David Levene]

Just allow women to compete in free, problem solved. Women have the same number of events that way, ...

The requirement isn't that they have the same number of events, it's that they have the same number of participants at the Olympics. With the Quota Place system, how would you guarantee that?

[sparky]

Remember, the IOC (and it seems, ISSF) doesn't want equal opportunity to participate, it wants equal outcome in participation, so an emphasis on opening up events to both men and women as a compromise is likely to be useless...except for a few events (maybe air rifle) where women have demonstrably shown their results are about on par with men. If you have events open to men and women, but the only folks actually qualifying, competing, and winning are men, it's a big fail from the IOC/ISSF perspective.

[SlartyBartFast]

The requirement isn't that they have the same number of events, it's that they have the same number of participants at the Olympics. With the Quota Place system, how would you guarantee that?

EXACTLY. The Olympics from its very founding was about promoting the participation in sports. History relegated women to the back of the bus until now. And now we're trying to catch up.

That's also why AP and AR are likely to dominate over 22lr. Far more participants worldwide can access AP and AR where access to 22lr guns is limited.

[Mike M.]

Were it up to me, I'd just add Women's FP.

Although I find the whole argument that women can't/won't shoot ludicrous. Over on the MLAIC side, all events are mixed except for one women's rifle event. And the most dominant rifle shooter I've seen is Tania Heber of Germany. She's the shooter to beat if you want that World Muzzle-Loading Championship in a rifle event.

[David Levene]

Over on the MLAIC side, all events are mixed except for one women's rifle event.

I thought there were also a couple of pistol events, but you know better than me.

I believe that there were about 120 events at last years World Championships. Any idea how many medals went to Women?

[Olympic Dreamer]

Remember, the IOC (and it seems, ISSF) doesn't want equal opportunity to participate, it want's equal outcome in participation, so an emphasis on opening up events to both men and women as a compromise is likely to be useless...except for a few events (maybe air rifle) where women have demonstrably shown their results are about on par with men. If you have events open to men and women, but the only folks actually qualifying, competing, and winning are men, it's a big fail from the IOC/ISSF perspective.

Well if you have a mixed team event like tennis double both men and women will win.

[j-team]

Well if you have a mixed team event like tennis double both men and women will win.

That's exactly what the IOC/ISSF propose with the mixed air teams events!

[Mike M.]

I believe that there were about 120 events at last years World Championships.

Nope. Leaving out the team events, it was 10 rifle, 6 pistol, 2 shotgun. Separate divisions for original and repro arms.

Plus 2 rifle and 1 pistol demo events the Hungarians added on, but those weren't official MLAIC events.

[SlartyBartFast]

Were it up to me, I'd just add Women's FP.

If it had been done years ago that would have been the solution. Can't add events or increase the number of athletes any more.

If the ISSF is on the ball all ISSF events would immediately be men's and women's where numbers warrant and open to all where they don't.

[Christopher Miceli]

Doesn't removing women's events and making them mixed imply that women's events aren't as good as men's events ?

[shaky hands]

Well if you have a mixed team event like tennis double both men and women will win.

That's exactly what the IOC/ISSF propose with the mixed air teams events!

At least as far as Grand Slam and Masters tournaments are concerned, hardly anyone pays attention to mixed tennis doubles.

[David Levene]

I believe that there were about 120 events at last years World Championships.

Nope. Leaving out the team events, it was 10 rifle, 6 pistol, 2 shotgun. Separate divisions for original and repro arms.

Plus 2 rifle and 1 pistol demo events the Hungarians added on, but those weren't official MLAIC events.

Am I imagining it or, leaving out the team events and what appear to be Women only events (Walkyrie O & R?), were there only 2 female medallists, those being in the Clay Target events.

If I'm right then, whatever the reason, this form of mixed gender individual event is unlikely to be what the IOC are looking for.

[hundert]

adding one extra event for women won't increase the number of participants (they shoot both events anyway) Swimming has five trillion events and they're all the f***** same!

and it solves the gender equality thing...

[Mike M.]

adding one extra event for women won't increase the number of participants (they shoot both events anyway) Swimming has five trillion events and they're all the f***** same!

and it solves the gender equality thing...

An excellent point. How many men shoot only AP or FP? The only added cost of women's FP would be the medals and keeping the range open.

I think this may be the key. The IOC doesn't give a damn about how it gets done, their interest is in the number of medals (men = women), number of athletes (the same or fewer), and number of venues (same or fewer). I actually understand ISSF throwing FP under the bus to keep RF, as FP and AP are variations on the same slow-fire theme. But they need to think outside the box.

[David Levene]

The IOC doesn't give a damn about how it gets done, their interest is in the number of medals (men = women), number of athletes (the same or fewer), and number of venues (same or fewer).

You've forgotten about the number of events.

The IOC want to limit the Summer Olympics to 310 events. Rio had 306 and Tokyo has 5 additional sports.

If shooting holds on to 15 events it will be a major success. Increasing that number isn't realistic.

[Spencer]

...The IOC want to limit the Summer Olympics to 310 events. Rio had 306 and Tokyo has 5 additional sports...

But the IOC is not all that serious about which sports.
Numerous 'sports' could be just as easily conducted as part of the winter Olympics (but they would not have the kudos that the summer Olympics brings). (:>)]

[David Levene]

...The IOC want to limit the Summer Olympics to 310 events. Rio had 306 and Tokyo has 5 additional sports...

But the IOC is not all that serious about which sports.
Numerous 'sports' could be just as easily conducted as part of the winter Olympics (but they would not have the kudos that the summer Olympics brings). (:>)]

The IOC also want to limit the Winter Olympics to 100 events. Sochi had 98 and Pyeong Chang has 102 planned.

They are scared that if the Olympics, both Summer and Winter, get any bigger then even fewer cities will be prepared to bid for them.