Pardini HP 32, ammo talk

[dronning]

..... What will we come up with in the next 50 years. -- Bill --

+1 on everything you said

It has been brought up before but I think if the 32acp continues to gain momentum someone will come up with a .32 conversion for the 1911. Now that would be awesome!

- Dave

[oldcaster]

It would have to be re engineered completely like the Marvel because the 32 ACP or 32 long guns are blowback.

[sparky]

..... What will we come up with in the next 50 years. -- Bill --

+1 on everything you said

It has been brought up before but I think if the 32acp continues to gain momentum someone will come up with a .32 conversion for the 1911. Now that would be awesome!

- Dave

Doubt it. The only reason the .32acp is gaining popularity is because a Pardini can be made to fire it. For a 1911 platform, 9mm and .38super/supercomp can do everything the .32acp can do, cheaper and with a lot less hassle.

[oldcaster]

Yes and with much greater recoil. The 32 ACP will shoot a 62 grain bullet at 780 fps more accurately than either. A 22 is a 40 grain at around 1000. That is 48360 compared to 40000. A 9mm is a 115 or more at 1100 which equals 126500.

[fc60]

Greetings,

A while back, I did some testing with swaged bullets. A fellow shooter liked my results and bought a swaging press and some dies.

In the photo attached is a group fired at 50 yards. He did not say if it was sand bag rest or Random Rest. I suspect sand bags, as he is a High Master and made comments about adjusting his RedDot for 50 yards.

The bullets in the photo have a hollow point and cup base (slight dimple) at 0.314"

Nonetheless, most impressive!!!

Cheers,

Dave

[oldcaster]

Swaged bullets almost always seem to be excellent, mainly I guess because of the consistency and that they can be made out of very soft alloy. I also think a hollow point is a good idea but trying to cast an accurate HBWC or hollow point never seems to work very well. Were the bullets swaged from wire or cast first and then swaged.

[pistol champ]

They were made from 92% lead 8% antimony. Big pain to cast slugs with out any tin.
The swaged bullets were 0.3148" final diameter.
Star brass with about 10 reloadings.
Bullet weight 64 gr.
1.3 gr TiteWad
Sizing die 0.3333" no expander used just a small flair of the case mouth to start the bullet.
No crimp just removed the case mouth flair. Bullet is held in place with the 0.001" interference between the case and bullet.
45/45/10 lube
Winchester primer
Overall length 0.875"
Loaded on Star Universal press.

I could never got pure lead to shoot with the cup base. I think that the edge deforms when exiting the barrel and sends the bullet off course. I do get good results with a flat base.

[oldcaster]

When casting without tin, you can go quite a bit hotter and faster to keep your temps up and use the pressure pour method with the pot near full. When I casted for the AMU that was our method for a 148 grain wadcutter for 38's and I can imagine that a smaller bullet would be even harder to cast effectively. Our alloy was 100% used 22 rimfire bullets. I think this is quite a bit more difficult but some stellar scores were shot this way. Almost all the 45 matches were shot with Star swaged 185 grain bullets. I doubt if I casted a thousand 45 bullets all the time I did this and I think when I did they were 200 grain. For the first year all newbies shot 45 hardball only.

[pistol champ]

Thanks Old Caster,

When it gets cooler I'll give your suggestions a go, higher temp,
pressure pour. I also have a problem cutting the sprues when the
alloy gets hard it gets really hard. The time window to cut the sprue is
pretty small. Do you know anywhere to get a sprue plate for an Accurate
5 hole mold with smaller holes?

I'll start collecting my 22's and give that a try also.

I still use the Star swaged bullets and they do shoot well.

[oldcaster]

Years ago most molds had a small sprue hole but people for the most part cast with a ladle tight to the mold hence making it pressure pour and a small hole did not matter. Nowadays almost no one pressure pours or ladle casts. Some of this has to do with a lot of cheap molds being such a poor fit that if a person did cast with these two methods the bullets would have side skirts and bases with flashing. I have a Lee 105 38 that requires me to have the pot very low and to make sure it doesn't hit exactly in the hole or there will be extra flashing on the bullets. They don't have to be accurate because I shoot them in the steel plate challenge and fairly close distances so with the method I use the bases are never very consistent but it doesn't matter. I don't know of anyone who makes a mold with a small hole in the sprue plate anymore. The only ones I have are old Redding molds. People will sell them cheap because they complain that they don't cast well.

[Spaceball]

Hi Guys,

For the people that have purchased a mold from accurate Molds have you gone for a Brass or Aluminum mold?
I am not sure how the heat profile of the brass mold will affect this very small bullet and if it would be too hard to keep the mold at the right temp.

Thanks

[pistol champ]

I use the aluminum molds they work great. They are low cost so when I want to try something different I do not feel like I'm throwing out a big dollar item. If you treat them properly I'm sure that they will cast more bullets than you will shoot. The aluminum ones are lighter so easier on your arm. I use a small hot plate to keep them hot.

[oldcaster]

I use the aluminum mold and have no problems with it. It is a 5 cavity and the brass is, I think, a 4 cavity. I can cast as fast as I want with the aluminum mold and not have any problem with getting too fast and smearing lead on the sprue plate which is pretty much because the bullets are so small that not much heat is transferred. I cast at 720 degrees with an alloy around 8-9 BHN and I use the pressure pour method which is what I use on any quality mold. The brass mold may hold its heat better and consequently you may have to slow down the casting process so as to not cut the sprue off before it hardens. If you accidently do this it makes a bigger mess than it will with an aluminum mold because the lead can become soldered to the top part of the mold. Also I am sure the brass mold is quite a bit heavier and when pressure casting weight gets old because you are holding the mold up the entire time you are pouring and don't get to rest it. Either would be fine so choose which ever you want.

[Spaceball]

Thanks Guys.

I will go with a 4 cavity Aluminum mold in the smaller mold block.
Will report back when it arrives and I start casting.

SB

[Dipnet]

I finally got around to loading and testing (at 25 yds) the 1.6gr VV N310 using a minor variation Dave's recipe (62gr LSWC, R-P brass, Fed match sm primers, OAL: 0.885 and crimp: 0.325) and WOW--good load. A ~0.6-in one-hole 5-shot group (shot from a hand-held rest) tells me all I need to know that the load is good at 50 too (well, also considering usual careful testing by Dave). Prior to that, I used 1.2gr TightWad load based on Oldcaster experimentation, which yielded standard deviations of like 6 or 8, which you never, ever see, I don't care how careful you are.

Oldcaster opined the 62gr LSWC bullet he designed would achieve its best accuracy around 750 fps; I listened to his experience. But there are more than one way to smoke the x-ring and the 1.6gr N310 load is about 100 fps faster and very accurate. I think the OAL of 0.885 and the increased crimp (from 0.331 down to 0.325) may be accuracy contributors. I am intrigued by the dimpled, straight wall bullet discussed above.

The 32 ACP is proving to be a mini-45 ACP in terms of accuracy; who would have thunk it? Based on loading 308s, where high density or compressed loads often produce the best accuracy, these bullets show that BC is not PC and that half-a-case of powder is just fine, if not perfect. I hear catcalls of "pull out your mouse-gun" during centerfire stages, but I love the scores, the haughty little recoil (yes Virginia, there is recoil), and the wee puff of smoke. It's a gun alright. I especially love the font of creativity sparked by shooters of this caliber. Fun to play with you all, cheers, dipnet

[oldcaster]

I never got the results with TiteWad powder like I hoped because it was a very fast powder and I thought it would be cleaner burning. Someone else on here got good results so I tried it. My best results so far were with 1.5 of TiteGroup and I never had any VV powders so I didn't try them. Several people have had good results with it though. One of my first good loads was 2.9 - 3 grains of #5 and it was around 820 but the TiteGroup at 1.5 and 750 was better. The important thing is to try everything in your individual gun until you get the results you want.

My competitors always tell me to say bang every time I shoot so they will know I am still firing. I suspect they don't like my rapid fire scores.

[Dipnet]

I buy my VV powders online and try to find another reloader to submit a multiple order to divy up the hazmat fee. The N310 is very similar to BE, but the grains are harder and it meters extraordinary well, at least in my 550. For some reason, there is never any VV at local gun shows, except for N133 used by AR shooters. N310 is presently available at Powder Valley, $110 for a 4lb can, so it helps to find an order buddy. Best, dipnet

[shootaholic]

Hello fellow avid testers,
I've only recently come across the great work that you Yanks have been doing with .32acp.
I initially thought it was a misprint as no one in Australia has ever considered loading acp cases for a .32 S&W auto. Your results have sparked a new challenge.
As I've been swaging HBWCs for some years now for a 38 revolver for PPC and a FWB History#1 muzzle loader, I found it disturbing that some are swaging hard cast projectiles. I would have thought there is a danger of cracking the die.
For my 148 HBWCs I use a Lee 6 cavity mold to cast a pure lead slug and then swage it into a HBWC in my Corbin S press. I load these with 2.8grns of Bullseye and then enough Polenta on top to take up the air space. The polenta needs to be compressed enough to prevent mixing with the powder at the bottom of the case.
Sound weird eh!, but with the 148 seated out and just behind the forcing cone in the cylinder, this load shot 1" at 50 yds. I mount a 6 power pistol scope and aim at a 1" black patch over sand bags. This is much more accurate than using a red dot.
Regards
Shootaholic
Perth West Australia

[fc60]

G'Day Shootaholic,

Your testing method parallels mine.

I do not use any filler, though.

What revolver do you use for 1" 50 yard groups? Are they six shot groups?

In the months to come, I also plan to bore out a Lee 6-cavity mould for slugs. I was leaning towards 30:1 Lead:Tin.

Cheers,

Dave

[sparky]

At this point in time, if you are just going to shoot jacketed bullets, you don't need a different barrel Even shooting lead bullets, quite a few here have been very successful. The problem lies in the fact that you have to rework the brass and dedicate them to lead bullets only. This requires a few things that aren't available from commercial entities. Some have been writing lately about different venues to buy expanders of the proper size but I don't personally know how well it is working. I along with most have made their own expanders or have gotten them made by friends. The only reason to buy a different barrel is the possibility that a smaller diameter barrel might enable a person to also shoot a smaller diameter lead bullet and consequently avoid the custom expanders and the overworking of the brass. In other words with a new smaller barrel, it might be possible to use standard reloading dies and still be successful with lead and jacketed without changing the method of loading between lead and jacketed plus interchange the brass. It might be worth it if someone starts making and changing these barrels but at this time I am not aware of anyone who has done this and can be sure that it will universally work. In the future, my expectations are that it will be proven and worthwhile. That way, even people who aren't experienced reloaders can be successful and with less problems.

After reading a ton of threads here on this (my head is still spinning), that really seems like the ideal solution...a custom smaller diameter .32acp barrel would allow one to shoot jacketed and cheaper lead bullets without having to resort to custom expanders and having basically two entirely different sets of dies and brass (one for jacketed and one for lead). Unfortunately, no one is making such custom .32acp barrels. Does anyone know of a barrel maker who would be willing to make such barrels for Pardinis?