Sig Hammerli P240
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, Isabel1130
Sig Hammerli P240
Hello to all, I am new to target competition and am hoping that the experienced here can give me advice regarding acquiring a P240. I have read as much as I can find by conventional means (not much), but would really appreciate input by those who own and shoot this pistol. I am steering towards .38 WC. Thanks to all, Marc
-
Mike Taylor
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:03 pm
- Location: Okanagan Valley, British Columbia
P240
I have a P240 in .32 S&W long calibre. My principle concern has been the weight of the pistol. Not that it is too heavy to hold, but that it is too heavy to pass the rules.
With a medium-sized anatomical grip having an adjustable palm shelf, an empty magazine, and a woven-mesh case catcher attached, the gun is overweight by 23 grams. The palm shelf alone weighs 23 grams, so I could leave that off, but that defeats the purpose of having a palm rest.
I could leave off the case catcher, but that still leaves the gun overweight by 18 grams.
Now the .38 version, having a larger bore than the .32, might just make it under the 1400 grams ISSF limit, but I suspect it will be close, really close, if you have an adjustable, anatomical grip fitted. You might find you have to go with the standard grip (no palm shelf) and forego a case catcher. Just my experience with one P240. YMMV
Mike T.
With a medium-sized anatomical grip having an adjustable palm shelf, an empty magazine, and a woven-mesh case catcher attached, the gun is overweight by 23 grams. The palm shelf alone weighs 23 grams, so I could leave that off, but that defeats the purpose of having a palm rest.
I could leave off the case catcher, but that still leaves the gun overweight by 18 grams.
Now the .38 version, having a larger bore than the .32, might just make it under the 1400 grams ISSF limit, but I suspect it will be close, really close, if you have an adjustable, anatomical grip fitted. You might find you have to go with the standard grip (no palm shelf) and forego a case catcher. Just my experience with one P240. YMMV
Mike T.
Hi Marc,
Watch out with the 38 version! It's a beautifully made gun and handles very nicely, but I think something may have gone astray in translating the 38 special from imperial to metric measure. The bore diameter tends to be pretty tight (about .354"- .355") while the barrel tube thickness is pretty thin. The potential for a bulged barrel is very real, and there have been a few reports of such. I seem to recall that the rifling twist is a bit different than most 38s, so matching loads to the gun may be a bit of a challenge. But if you are a careful reloader and are willing to cast or swage your own bullets to the correct diameter, you won't have and trouble. Do a search here on TargetTalk and you should find out more.
Any particular reason for the Hammerli P240? Since you've posted under the "bullseye" section as opposed to "olympic" I'm assuming you are new to NRA 2700 conventional pistol rather than, say, international centerfire.
If so, and you would like to shoot 38 for the CF portion of the match you may want to consider the Smith and Wesson 52 (older model in 38, not new 9mm) or one of the 38 wc custom conversions of a 1911 (Clark, Giles, AMU, etc...). You'll save a bundle of $$ and get a pistol that shoots as well (or better!). If you ever need parts or service, either the S&W or 1911 will be easier and cheaper to deal with.
You may want to contact Larry Carter at www.larrysguns.com for more info on the p240. He usually has a couple in stock and is the Hammerli service guy in the USA. He'll be on the level regarding parts, service, cost, etc.
Best regards,
Jim
Watch out with the 38 version! It's a beautifully made gun and handles very nicely, but I think something may have gone astray in translating the 38 special from imperial to metric measure. The bore diameter tends to be pretty tight (about .354"- .355") while the barrel tube thickness is pretty thin. The potential for a bulged barrel is very real, and there have been a few reports of such. I seem to recall that the rifling twist is a bit different than most 38s, so matching loads to the gun may be a bit of a challenge. But if you are a careful reloader and are willing to cast or swage your own bullets to the correct diameter, you won't have and trouble. Do a search here on TargetTalk and you should find out more.
Any particular reason for the Hammerli P240? Since you've posted under the "bullseye" section as opposed to "olympic" I'm assuming you are new to NRA 2700 conventional pistol rather than, say, international centerfire.
If so, and you would like to shoot 38 for the CF portion of the match you may want to consider the Smith and Wesson 52 (older model in 38, not new 9mm) or one of the 38 wc custom conversions of a 1911 (Clark, Giles, AMU, etc...). You'll save a bundle of $$ and get a pistol that shoots as well (or better!). If you ever need parts or service, either the S&W or 1911 will be easier and cheaper to deal with.
You may want to contact Larry Carter at www.larrysguns.com for more info on the p240. He usually has a couple in stock and is the Hammerli service guy in the USA. He'll be on the level regarding parts, service, cost, etc.
Best regards,
Jim
I have read about the bulged barrel issue in .38 and I'm not worried about that so much. I would have to find bullet casting moulds in the .354-.355 range, correct? The reason for the P240 is mostly the aesthetics. My favorite pistol is the Sig P210 and the P240 is based on its design, the P240 being less expensive than the target variants of the P210. Also, Warren at pilkguns wrote that the S&W 52 magazines will work in it. Can anyone confirm this? What benefits would the .32 chambering have over .38? Thanks for the help, Marc
The best bet before buying a mold is to slug the barrel once you get the gun. Use a pure lead round ball a few thousands of an inch over (.360 for a 38 for example) and just tap it down the barrel from breech to muzzle. Use a 1/4" or 5/16" dowel and a mallet. Be sure to protect the crown with something like a piece of leather set on a bench or tabletop. Measure the slug at its widest point. Plan on using a bullet that matches this measurement or is not more than .001" over.
The bullet mold choice will depend on whether you wish to size bullets or use a mold that drops a slug at the diameter you want for the alloy you wish to use. For wadcutters I suggest an alloy of 1:16 tin to lead, which is soft by magnum standard but perfect for target loads. The more lead and less tin in the alloy, the larger and softer the slug will be out of the mold. The harder the alloy, either by adding tin (expensive) or antimony (cheap, especially from wheel weights) the smaller the cast slug.
Some molds, like Lyman, are a crap shoot. A 38 mold may drop bullets from .354" to as much a .360". But, there are so many nice used ones you might find one from a seller who can tell you what it does.
If you decide to size your bullets you want an "as cast" diameter that requires not more than .002" sizing.
You might decide to size or not depending on what your mold does.
Some companies will make the mold to cast to your specified diameter.
One more thing: If the p240 indeed can use a m52 magazine, it is worth remembering that your load cannot use a bullet which protrudes at all. They just won't fit in the magazine. Your mold choice would best be one of the "double ended" wadcutter designs.
PS: the p240 is very nice! If you're shooting 2700, or 50yds, the 38 is best.
Best,
Jim
The bullet mold choice will depend on whether you wish to size bullets or use a mold that drops a slug at the diameter you want for the alloy you wish to use. For wadcutters I suggest an alloy of 1:16 tin to lead, which is soft by magnum standard but perfect for target loads. The more lead and less tin in the alloy, the larger and softer the slug will be out of the mold. The harder the alloy, either by adding tin (expensive) or antimony (cheap, especially from wheel weights) the smaller the cast slug.
Some molds, like Lyman, are a crap shoot. A 38 mold may drop bullets from .354" to as much a .360". But, there are so many nice used ones you might find one from a seller who can tell you what it does.
If you decide to size your bullets you want an "as cast" diameter that requires not more than .002" sizing.
You might decide to size or not depending on what your mold does.
Some companies will make the mold to cast to your specified diameter.
One more thing: If the p240 indeed can use a m52 magazine, it is worth remembering that your load cannot use a bullet which protrudes at all. They just won't fit in the magazine. Your mold choice would best be one of the "double ended" wadcutter designs.
PS: the p240 is very nice! If you're shooting 2700, or 50yds, the 38 is best.
Best,
Jim
-
Guest
Re: Sig Hammerli P240
yes the m52 mags will hold slide open on the last shot, the p240 mags won,t
Re: Sig Hammerli P240
I wouldn't concern myself with the bore diameter. It is the same as the S&W 52, and the same as my .38 Sp. Colt kit and Colt revolvers. Soft fat several thousandth over bullets work very well. The old, very accurate Remington wadcutters were .360".
Re: Sig Hammerli P240
A lot of P240's in Australia ended up with bulged barrels, they were used for our service pistol
match and shooting HBWC that seperrated the skirts leaving lead in the barrel and buldged on next shot.
The fix is to shoot cast solids, sized to .355/.356 (the P240 is a 9mm barrel .355 dia).
Also some aftermarket barrels are now available at .357/.358.
match and shooting HBWC that seperrated the skirts leaving lead in the barrel and buldged on next shot.
The fix is to shoot cast solids, sized to .355/.356 (the P240 is a 9mm barrel .355 dia).
Also some aftermarket barrels are now available at .357/.358.
Re: Sig Hammerli P240
I've heard that can happen, but I've never personally seen it. Speer used to warn of this in their reloading manual (for their swaged HBWCs), but I shot many of them using a kind of hot load (over manual) in my M52 with no problems (also my Colt .38 kit). It was extremely accurate, too.
Re: Sig Hammerli P240
I suspect that some shooters tried to load the HBWC to
120 power factor and blew skirts.
Not a good idea...
120 power factor and blew skirts.
Not a good idea...
Re: Sig Hammerli P240
The bulged P240 barrels in Australia coincided with a local manufacturer changing to a thinner skirt in his HBWC projectiles. Most, if not all, who had the problem were using the same brand of projectile.
Re: Sig Hammerli P240
I purchased a 354" size die and never used it as .358 HBWC with low velocity loadings seem to work fine. It is a pleasant shooter as recoil pulse is well balanced against the mass of the slide.