IZH 46M

[SamEEE]

I am afraid they are not simple canister arrangement - they need to be filled with a scale from a bulk tank from my understanding. They need to be filled semi-precisely to avoid sublimation of the CO2 which exists in three phases depending on some sort of weight voodoo.

I cannot pretend to understand. They do work though.

The pinnacle would be something like the Feinwerkbau C25, or the Walther CPM1. Older, but still okay Walther: CP1, CP2, CP3; Feinwerkbau Model 2, C20

Feinwerkbau is good for spares. Walther is a bit spottier.
The step up from these would be the Feinwerkbau P30/Walther LP300.

All of these are not really guns so far as your law and German law go so if you convince someone from Germany to ship one you stand to snag a bargain. Egun.de is a good place to start.

Chur.

[doctp12]

Wow,
I have lots to learn!

If $ was not an issue, would you get a Steyr 10 long or compact?
Mechanical or electronic trigger?
Seems majority of International medal winners are shooting the Steyr 10 long with electronic trigger, have you tried one?

Tom

[SamEEE]

I would probably go with the long and move the front sight back until I could shoot over 540 with an sort of regularity.
Longer sight radius is probably counterproductive for newbies and often leads to a lot of frustration as they cannot hold the sight picture to a useful level.

Easier to make a long one short, rather-than a short one long.

I almost bought a LP10E but did not in the end. The trigger bar is made of plastic and flexes, this means the first and second stage is poorly defined. Especially bad if you have long fingers and the trigger bar has to bear a lot of torque to the pivot. Know of 4 regularly on the NZ circuit; all seem to be going fine - most are about 18 months old now.

I also shot with a Morini 162MI club gun for 2 years. Felt uncomfortable stepping into the unknown. Went with the Electronic because it can dryfire without being manually cocked and is arguably the best airgun trigger ever made. (spot the fanboy).
If I was to go the Steyr route I would go with the Mechanical trigger, I think that trigger is probably better than the current generation LP10E.

I would take what the best shooters are shooting with a grain of salt - it is distorted to a certain degree with sponsorship and free guns. Do not forget these people have mad-skillz, and are professionals. True; they won't be shooting with turds. But do not for a minute think a CM84E will outshoot a TOZ! :D

This has evolved into a kind of separate topic; I would advocate for you to shoot what you have and have fun with it.

[Gwhite]

None of the high end CO2 pistols use cartridges. They use cylinders that have to be filled from a larger tank. In many ways they are less convenient than a compressed air pistol, because you have to go to an industrial supplier for your tank, gas, hydro testing etc., vs a more common scuba shop. To get a good fill, it also helps if you chill the cylinder before filling with CO2. I use a pump for my compressed air pistol, and don't mess with a scuba tank.

The only pistol that is really match quality that uses a CO2 cartridge is the Tau-7. They are very nice beginner pistols, and I much prefer them over the IZH especially for younger shooters. The balance is better, you don't have to use energy to pump them, and they are lighter (but you can always add weights). The MIT team won the collegiate Womens' National Championship a number of years ago using Tau-7's against a lot of SSP's & high end CO2 pistols. I'm not sure if there were many PCP's around at the time, at least at the collegiate level..

[paw080]

Thanks for your input!

I am interested in the early C02 pistols that you speak of, I love the convenience, of a simple pop in C02 cartridge.
Can you give me some names and model numbers?
How accurate were they?
Are they still in production? Are parts available?
Do you know of any available... only the top of the line pistols.
Thanks from New York!

Tom

Hi Tom, No drop in CO2 cartridges are used in top of the line CO2 APs.

Both AP60 and AP60 + 10 shot final world records were held for a couple

of decades by Pyzhianov Sergei using an FWB model 2 and a Steyr LP1-C.

I believe all CO2 match pistols going back several generations, can hold

the inner ten ring. My Steyr LP1-C can get over 240 useful inner 10 ring

shots with a complete fill. Shooting a CO2 match pistol is very simple if

you fill from a bulk tank; mine is a 20 lb. tank. I also use a digital scale

that is accurate to .10g to weight the pistols cylinders. Good Luck;

Tony

[doctp12]

So here is my story now!!
I shot the IZH-46M for the first time today, perfect weather, 10 meters exactly from a rest.
I used H+K Match pistol, 7.46 gm. was told that was a perfect fit for this pistol.

The first 2 shots were the diameter of a dime.
The third shot... the 2 rubber "O" rings blew out of the pistol leaving the pellet in place!! What the heck?????
The gun was loaded perfectly!!

I replaced the same 'O' rings, they were undamaged and shot another 30 rounds with a grouping about the size of a half dollar.
The trigger is nice but not the best.
Solution?
Does the pistol have to be broken in with a few hundred rounds?
Will the groupings get better over time?
I tried 2 other high end match pellets that gave worse groupings.
I know that it is "all" not me, but this doesn't seem right. I shot .45 bullseye for years and I am pretty good but I expected much more from this pistol.
Should I just relax and break it in or did I get a "lemon"?
I'm very frustrated, thinking about taking the leap and buying a Steyr 10 Long with electronic trigger, even with the hassle of the other stuff... tank and gauges and $$$.
At least I know that it will not be the fault of the gun.
For comparison, I pulled out a HW-75, [ prob. about 300 rounds thru it by another owner] and the groupings were much better, size of a dime and a very sweet trigger.
Also tried a Crossman [NEW] 2300S and the trigger was horrible, like heavy sand paper and shots all over the target, again, all at 10 meters from a rest.
Need advice, 2 good pistols and one great Russian pistol, but very disappointed in all 3., esp. the IZH 46-M.
Expected much more.
Is it a simple matter of putting a few hundred rounds thru it? Keep searching for the perfect pellet?
Why the heck did both seals blow out, it was cocked/loaded perfectly.
Where can I get a Steyr 10??
Help!

Tom

[doctp12]

Typo. Sorry.

Pellets were H+N Match pistol.

Tom

[Gwhite]

The only way that both breech seals could fly out like that is if the breech lever wasn't really latched all the way down. The tab at the font should seat well into the notch in the sliding piece in front of the breech. When new, the seals are stiff, and it can take some force to get the breech down far enough to latch properly.

It should shoot better than you describe. If it's new or has been stored for a long time, the seals could be dry. That could cause velocity variations. If the shots are stringing vertically, that could be the issue. If they are all over the place, check that the sights aren't loose. Also, if the bore has dried oil or a thin film of rust, it could take a bit for that to shoot out.

I'd oil the piston & seals (air tool oil is cheap, available all over the place & works well), and then shoot it for a bit.

[holmqer]

A couple of things...

First the o-rings on the transfer port blowing out, I had read of folks having this problem, and asked Pyramid Air about it before buying mine and they said it was related to not fully latching the bolt down. I've shot over 15K shots with my IZH and never experienced this. I can't really figure out how one could only partially latch the bolt down, it seems like a clearly latched or clearly not sort of thing. I have pushed the bolt down and it did not latch because I rushed, but it was pretty obvious I had messed up and I corrected the mistake before firing.

I never tried shooting groups from a rest early on, but using Target Scan to analyze my targets one handed, my mean radius for 60 shots is smaller than you are getting from a rest, and I'm only an 85% shooter, not a high end competitor. I tried 6 different pellet types shot from a rest much later and found them all under dime sized for 10 shots.

It is very difficult to compare shooting an SSP AP like the IZH from a rest to high end PCP or CO2. You can hold a Steyr or Morini in a vice and take shot after shot without having to re-aim, but the cocking motion on the IZH forces you to remove from the rest and re-aim for every shot.

[doctp12]

Yes, so true.
Just pretty frustrated, I was expecting, perfection and, as we know, there is no such thing in this sport, that's why we keep coming back.

Funny story, after I put the pistols away for the night, I grilled up a steak and sat out in the back watching the sun set, eating and relaxing when I feel something by my foot!
Looked down and there is this big fat raccoon looking for my dinner! You have to realize, I live on Long Island, NY and i have only seen 1 raccoon in our yard in 10 years and here I am with 3 pistols put away and nothing to hit this guy with but an ear of corn!!
Life is funny, I would have done anything to have had one of those poor shooting pistols in my hand, where they had been 30 minutes ago!
I'll get him tomorrow nite!
Tom

[Rover]

Half dollar size groups? In all my pellet testing, including backwards, seriously distorted, and low pressure, I NEVER saw a group anywhere near that bad. I can only think it is YOU.

Sorry.

[doctp12]

Wow Rover, that is pretty rough!

Really, I don't have Parkinsons' or a guide dog.

I would like to concentrate on the science. Maybe I should try loading the pellets backwards.
Thanks for your concern and insight.

Tom

[Pat McCoy]

You said this is a NEW pistol. Did you clean the shipping oil out of the bore before firing? If not you now have the oil partially heat packed into the bore, and a ways to go to get the bore clean and seasoned. Clean it with a good non-petroleum distillate (I use TSI301) and get it clean (no color on the patches. Then it will take 500 to 1000 shots to "settle in". During that time you should see the trigger smooth up some too. Clean when accuarcy drops (or every tin of pellets, which may be overkill but is easy to remember).

All good quality match pellets will hold the 10 ring with the IZH when it is broken in properly. Don't waste time reinventing the wheel by looking for the "best" pellet. Use the time to practice.

Why were you expecting "perfection"? You bought a good mid-range pistol, which is capable of doing 90%+ of what the top of the line pistols will do (at 3 to 4 times the cost). Are your shooting techniques "perfect"? Are they even at a 90% level? Apparently not, if you are not even getting the gun loaded properly (and yes, it does take real attention when the seals are new, or you only get a light locking of the firing port cover - I chased mine often in the beginning).

[Green_Canoe]

I have an older IZH 46 and my buddy has a 46m. Both of them will hold inside the 10 fing from a rest. I use RWS basics and my buddy R10s. I've crono'ed both pistols to have standard deviations of 2.5 & 2.8 fps so they are very consistent. In practice 550s come fairly consistently and 560s aren't a stranger. My suggestion is to clean the barrel to remove the rust inhibitor, make sure the pistol is lubed, adjust the sights and trigger to your liking, read lots of how to shoot an air pistol threads on TT, and then shoot a bunch. I found shooting an AP took a little adjustment to my technique after starting in bullseye. Unless you got a fluke, it is very capable pistol if a little lacking in ergonomics.

[kevinweiho]

I replaced the same 'O' rings, they were undamaged and shot another 30 rounds with a grouping about the size of a half dollar.

When shooting my new Izzy for the first time, I cleaned the bore and moly lubricated all the cocking linkages and breech lever friction points. All the shots were all over the place, but after about 50-100 shots, adjusting the elevation, windage, and at a sub-6 hold, the groups were beginning to tighten up significantly. Here is my fifty shot group (nickel size at 10 mts., bag rested) with H&N Finale Match pellets. Now if I can just do the same off handed, I would be very happy...

I have a feeling your pistol still needs to be shot more for the seals and parts to break in.

[doctp12]

Thank you guys, this makes sense to me now.
Cleaning the bore..TSI 301, where can I get it, Pyramid?
Do you ??ever?? use a copper brush on the barrel?? Yes, newbie question.

Moly lube friction points.. what product? Sold where?

The gun did not come with a manual, on the internet, poor photos, any links with instructions and good photos?

Thanks for all of your help... feeling better about this already.

Tom

[Wynne G Oldman]

I'm afraid Rover is right. Unless your pistol has some sort of problem, it's you. Your Izzy should easily hold the 10 ring all day. The seals blew out because you didn't close the breech properly. As said before, easily done when the seals are new and stiff. My trigger was a bit gritty when I first got it, but it's worn in nicely now, just through use, and is very nice to use. My advice to you is to get your grip how you like it, adjust your trigger and sights to suit you, and shoot a few thousand pellets through it and then see what you think. Good luck.

PS: Don't forget to put a couple of drops of oil down the transfer port and on the plunger seal every 500 pellets.

PPS: This link should give you an idea of how accurate a MP-46M is.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... p?t=575942

[Green_Canoe]

Thank you guys, this makes sense to me now.
Cleaning the bore..TSI 301, where can I get it, Pyramid?
Do you ??ever?? use a copper brush on the barrel?? Yes, newbie question. No brush, the barrel is soft. Just use a pull-thru with a small patch. I'd just use methyl alcohol (solvent alcohol I use for shellac finishes. There are many other good options) being careful to keep it off the seals. Then I'd oil the compression cylinder and transfer port with Crossman Pelloil because I know it's safe for the rubber seals. The first 20 or so shots will be wet and coat the barrel with lube so you don't have worry about rust. Opinions vary, but after that you shouldn't have to touch the inside of the barrel again.

Moly lube friction points.. what product? Sold where? I just use more Pelloil here. If you take off the grips there will be a hole in the frame where you can see the sear. Remove the old lube and relube with light oil.


The gun did not come with a manual, on the internet, poor photos, any links with instructions and good photos? No manual? Did it come with the spare parts kit, multi tool, and cleaning rod? I'm just going to Google for the manual so I'll let you have that pleasure.

Thanks for all of your help... feeling better about this already.



Tom

See comments above in red...

No problem. Rest assured unless something funky is going on you've got a very capable gun.

[Rover]

No brush? Hell no!

Scrub the crap out of your barrel; it's STEEL vs Brass. That will break loose all the dried lube and sharp edges from manufacturing. You will only need to do this once.

I found RWS Basic as good as most top of the line pellets in my testing, and they are cheap. You should be able to keep ALL (thirty) shots inside the ten ring to be useful.

Then again, it could be you. But, to be honest I have found it difficult to test SSPs.

Do a search under my handle for "Pellet tests".

[Green_Canoe]

A .17 caliber brush is more steel than bronze, looks like a crown ding waiting to happen. YMMV (And then you have to get a compatible rod...)

I found RWS Basic as good as most top of the line pellets in my testing, and they are cheap.

Thanks to your advice I've saved a bunch in pellet cost and I still can't shoot to the capability of the pistol using Basics. :^(