Trigger travel past break point?

[HotDiggity]

I noticed in the book Air Rifle Shooting on the subject of the trigger that the authors state, "The trigger should move freely, beyond the break point. 'Trigger-stops' should not be found on a rifle!"

No further elaboration is given, but I'm curious as to why one would want over-travel on a target rifle trigger. Are there detriments to having the trigger stop it's movement after the shot has been released as long as follow-through is maintained?

[patriot]

It may just be personal preference, but I was starting to anticipate or "go after" the light trigger on my any rifle (35X). It was never a problem with irons. Taking out the stop and washing out the second stage solved the problem.

Mark

[jhmartin]

I set all of my kids to two stage.
I think the reason for the trigger to continue to flow past the break point is to not disturb the gun as the pellet exits the rifle. A hard stop after the break would (to me) seem to give extra motion to the rifle.

To prove that I'd have to maybe set one up and look at it on a SCATT or something like it.

[dahigg]

If you have a trigger stop and you continue to pull on your trigger past the shot, you are introducing a moment about the gun. This moment has the potential to affect the gun before the bullet has exited the barrel. On the flip side, if you have a free floating trigger, you won't be creating a moment about the gun; therefore, it wouldn't be able to pitch in whichever direction that force is pushing it.

[JasonM]

I guess I differ in my opinion on this. I set my triggers so that there is no perceptible movement of the trigger blade upon the shot breaking. Once I settle against the second stage, I want the trigger to function like a pressure switch and not move. If there is pressure against the second stage and no movement and then movement when the shot breaks, there is a difference in that there is no opposite force for the slight pressure that was being used to push against the trigger, which can induce movement of the rifle. The only movement should be the movement of the firing pin/spring and the bullet, other than the obvious recoil from the shot.

[Muffo]

see i agree with the above post. that is the purpose of a trigger stop.the trigger has a gradual increasing rearward pressure on it. if the trigger falls away to nothing then this induces unwanted movement and kills follow through. if the trigger stop is adjusted correctly then nothing should happen. you maintain the same gradual increase of pressure as before

[BigAl]

My usual trigger technique is with a two stage trigger. I will do all my positional checks, bring the trigger to the through the first stage, which I have just light enough to return should I reject the shot. I then do my final breath, sight alignment checks, and build pressure until the shot breaks. Again I usually aim for a really light second stage, with a definite stop and no creep in the break. I have the overtravel set right out as far as possible. When the shot breaks the finger movement stops with no additional rewards movement. I then run through my follow through procedure. This usually entails staying in the final position for about 3 seconds. followed by a mental assessment of the shot, then I release the trigger and break position. Generally my follow through will timeout the default follow through time on a SCATT system. I have always paid a lot of attention to correct trigger operation when shooting, and will spend time dry firing practicing the trigger technique independently, to build the correct muscle memory. I can now do it mentally without the gun too, and the finger moves (or not) completely of its own accord.

Alan

[WesternGrizzly]

I agree with essentially removing the over travel screw for the reasons dahigg gave. Sure in an ideal world the finger shouldn't move once the shot breaks, but this is reality. What if you have a release that has some room for improvement? In standing, the finger slamming against the travel stop can send the shot into deep orbit. While most shots won't be that extreme, I like to plan on having a bit of a backup. The pressure of a final can make the best trigger control crumble.
Also, in the standing position it is very helpful to have some free motion for this same reason. High level shooters often have an aggressive (but smooth) trigger control in standing. As the hold settles, the shot is broken with confidence and authority so the opportunity is taken full advantage of. A fantastic example of this is Abi Bindra. In the video "scatt it" his trigger control is shown.
Matt

[Muffo]

interesting most top level air pistol shooters, which is the shooting event that requires the greatest level of trigger controll, either use and electronic trigger or a trigger stop to try and eliminate the drop off when the shot breaks. this is why electronic triggers are becoming so popular

[redschietti]

My understanding is that air pistols have very heavy triggers compared to air rifles.

[Muffo]

My understanding is that air pistols have very heavy triggers compared to air rifles.

you would be correct as far as im aware. same affect, its just less force

[Tim S]

Out of interest, what's the difference in barrel time between a typical 10 air pistol and a smallbore rifle? Perhaps it's just the comparative size of the bull, but most rifle shooters I see appear to like overtravel; no creep, but overtravel.

[timinder]

Maybe it's the case that the trigger finger in pistol has a much larger influence on the hold of the pistol, as compared to rifle shooting, where the trigger is so light that operating it should have no discernible effect on the position of the rifle as it's so firmly supported by the sling, both hands and the shoulder?

[patriot]

I think it is half mental. I do not use a stop in smallbore prone or on pistols. With smallbore irons it is easy for my eye to break the trigger clean when the sight picture is correct. With a 35X scope and a trigger weight just over an ounce it was not, so I have that rifle's trigger setup with a little travel but no indication when it will break; no perceptible second stage or stop. That way I'm not anticipating or going after it. Not knowing seems to help with following through too.

Mark

[BigAl]

Maybe it's the case that the trigger finger in pistol has a much larger influence on the hold of the pistol, as compared to rifle shooting, where the trigger is so light that operating it should have no discernible effect on the position of the rifle as it's so firmly supported by the sling, both hands and the shoulder?

Tim I really do not think that is the case, even in prone. I really believe in the benefits of an excellent trigger technique, followed by a good follow through will make or break a shot. After all the trigger finger is the only thing that we are actually trying to move when we break the shot. Remember that you only need to move the muzzle about 0.1mm to move the shot from a 10.9 to a 9.9 at 50m, well if I got my math correct. If you move to AR or 3P then trigger becomes even more important in the standing position, where poor trigger technique is even more likely to induce a movement of the muzzle. It is so important that it even makes a difference when shooting Bench Rest. The best BR shooters have incredibly good trigger technique.

Alan

[timinder]

Al, yes I agree with what you're saying about the importance of good trigger technique. Where I was coming from is that in pistol shooting, the only points of contact are the holding hand and fingers, so if you cock it up, it has a bigger overall effect than it would in rifle where you've got other bits of you helping to keep the thing still.

Having said that, I've not shot AP (yet), so I could well be talking rubbish!
My trigger technique in prone is awesome though!